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  1. #21
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    Sometimes the medicine doesn't taste so good, but you need to take it anyway.

    I don't know if there's ever been an FP who simply took it without first putting up a fight.

    Seeing as how you regularly implore TJs to listen to their Fi, I find your position oddly inconsistent.


  2. #22
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    A lot of what you've mentioned about yourself definitely rings true for her, especially what you've said about her being intimidating to guys her own age. One of her biggest complaints is actually that the men she tends to attract are so much older. Like, 20-30 years older. And they hold positively zero interest for her. Was this true for you as well?
    yeah, that was my experience. older men saw me as a challenge and an intriguing alternative to women their age (i could hold my own in conversations, had similar intellectual pursuits, was capable of admiring their accomplishments, was somewhat neutral about their interest, and importantly: had not yet formed ideas about what i did or didn't want in a relationship--i was malleable and doe-eyed).

    it makes sense that young women like this are the ultimate challenge + ego boost for some older men: elusive, intellectual, highly discerning virgins in every sense of the word.

    i eventually caved and dated a few of the old codgers who could keep up. i was their "bon bon" and they were my mentors. but i always bolted when they pressured me for sex--i needed more time to study them and decide whether i really wanted to open up to them as individuals...they were just eager to get to it. again: a challenge. conversely, it seemed that men my age never did figure out how to pro-actively engage me on all my levels; only later did i develop and use those latent ENFPish skills to coax them into participating in courtship as more equals. that happened when i learned to recognize and override their sense of intimidation and my desire for a more traditional courtship, by dabbling in seduction. essentially.

    and then my dear, i was off to the races.

    The men that she seems to be most attracted to are IFJs. She likes guys who are sensitive, nurturing, and maybe a little brooding. She definitely wants a Feeler. Someone who can match her emotional intensity. She was raised in a house with three TJs, and has limited patience for our kind. She wants someone who speaks her language and who revels in the nuances of emotional gestures as much she does. He also has to be extremely attractive. She's a lookist to the extreme, and tends to gravitate towards pretty boys. He'll also have to be pretty fucking smart, or he's not gonna make the cut either.
    who is her male archetype? my father was an INTJ--what's your dad? if your sis is hesitant about involvement with other men, but has specific requirements, she has likely developed an ideal somewhere and is clinging to it. only with time and experience can she really refine it.

    oh btw, many ENFPs seek the highest level of what their skill set tells them they can acquire (it has to do with an intense imagination, high ideals and watching what happens when we flex our powers of influence--and refining YES our ethics along the way). so, some of us have fun developing our seductive gifts, others our intellectual gifts, and some our ability to render others more vulnerable and reveal their inner worlds to us. beware the one who has mastered all of these (and a few more i'll leave out for brand integrity purposes).

    i point all of this out simply because she may enjoy the feeling she gets when she brings down the big game: men with superlative intellect, good looks and an ability to handle her emotions.

    also:

    if she is as intelligent/beautiful and emotional as you say (and i'm sure she is) she might simply be looking for an equal companion and does not wish to settle. i don't blame her, but her choice is to protect herself and her ideals via emotional abstinence, or accept some form of compromise. and that process is essentially one of trial and error, and will take some time.

    hope this helps...
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  3. #23
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I was hoping that someone might have advice/perspective to share for my ENFP sister.
    Does she have many opportunities to interact with guys relatively close in age? If not, it might help to find some. Not dating or bar situations, but more like hobbies, clubs, community/volunteer groups, etc. where she can spend time with guys in no-pressure situations where dating is not even on the radar. This might help her relax around guys more, get to know a few just as friends, and see where things lead.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member flameskull95's Avatar
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    Maybe she should be more open to the opportunity. I'm not totally sure, but as an ENFP they condition their world around them through their Ne, so they understand situations before actually feeling or thinking about them. Maybe you should teach her to have a "take" at things with more 'initiative' than just doubtfulness when an opportunity arises. I'm probs the last person to give this advice to anyone as an INFP, who conditions everything through my own perspective, before actually understanding it. Anyway, if you can't teach her to 'open her heart' to people or situations that present some sort of 'love interest', (not to be cheesy)... make sure she can open her thinking or critical analysis, to perceive everything through how she thinks about it before considering it through her Ne or Fi. Make sure she uses her head or her Te, [the key] so she can think of "How did this situation come about", "What would happen if I keep doing what I'm doing" instead of "this is only what I understood from this". When ENFPs do this, their visionary capabilities usually are great enough to inspire people to do better themselves. Tell your sister that whenever she's scared she'll do the wrong thing, to anticipate 'future success' instead of present success. I have an ENFP sister, and she's older than me though, but I think she deviates between her Te function and can appear to be an ENXP, and that really gives her an advantage as she's usually the one that can keep everyone in our violent family 'in line' whenever we have arguments. It's a drive of taking initiative that your sister lacks.
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  5. #25
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I was hoping that someone might have advice/perspective to share for my ENFP sister.
    My baby sister is beautiful, intelligent, and immensely charming, but genuinely struggles with boy-girl stuff. She's turning 20 this year and has yet to kiss a guy, much less date one. I only ask because it's the source of a great deal of consternation for her, and I'd like to be able to help.
    From what I can tell it seems to break down to two somewhat related issues for her. She's got ridiculously high standards, and won't give 99.9% of guys the time of day. She's incredibly exacting about how she wants to be approached, and will brush a guy off in a heartbeat. Meanwhile, she's basically terrified of the opposite sex, so when one comes along that she does like, she's completely at a loss on how to interact with them. In fact, the only males she interacts with regularly are her gay guy friends.
    She's talked to most of the women in my family, and we're all kind of at a loss on how to help her. At this point, the fear is that she will get swept off her feet by the wrong kind of guy and get her heartbroken.
    Clearly, it's not exactly a life or death issue, but it weighs on her a lot. Any thoughts that ya'll would be willing to share would be appreciated.
    (She's also a 6w7 if that's helpful.)
    I think she should try a role reversal, find a guy she likes and try asking him out.
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  6. #26
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Sometimes the medicine doesn't taste so good, but you need to take it anyway.
    I don't know if there's ever been an FP who simply took it without first putting up a fight.
    Seeing as how you regularly implore TJs to listen to their Fi, I find your position oddly inconsistent.
    I agree with this. your average NFP would benefit from a concentrated dose of Te. maybe I'm projecting a bit because I'm not the most productive, clear minded person atm, but many NFPs don't even seem to acknowledge that these things are important in the first place.
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  7. #27
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Sometimes the medicine doesn't taste so good, but you need to take it anyway.

    I don't know if there's ever been an FP who simply took it without first putting up a fight.

    Seeing as how you regularly implore TJs to listen to their Fi, I find your position oddly inconsistent.


    *warning, function drivel ahead*

    This might be true for career stuff (and even then!), but it's bound to get her heart broken (not to mention potentially the poor guys she does this with) if she 'forces' love with Te.

    Give her the proper time it takes to develop Fi(by feeding it with Ne) and *know* what it wants, or I guarantee you, disaster will ensue.

    And I may implore Tjs to listen, but I never expect them to do it *my* way. They work differently and I expect no less than to have them have Fi as a voice in the back of their heads while having NiTe 'drive' as such. You should give FP's the same courtesy.

    Force Te on an NeFi that isn't ready, that hasn't had the time to process or do its homework, and you will wreak a lot of emotional damage, on all parties involved. Her Si will be so traumatized, she'll never wanna repeat the experiment ever again.

    You see this already with NFPs who 'jump' in for whatever reason and suck at wielding the Te hammer, having everyone curse at them and them going 'I didn't really mean it that way, I don't know what happened ' And this is when they voluntarily decide to do it (and therefore are blind to what the consequences will be), not when they're being forced by others, so it won't actually permanently wound their Si (the blindness prevents that, thank god).

    Once again, give her NeFi time to catch up and prod Fi to get to work already and demand from Ne that it feed it real information instead of 'what if' scenarios. Right now she's not NeFi-ing, she's NeSi-ing (what if, omg, it'll be horrendous). Si is retaining all the scenarios Ne feeds it that are a disaster. And Fi is used as a barrier to keep that from happening as it's fueled by both her Si nightmares of reality and the idealistic dreams she's gathered from tv, books and her own aspirations. If anything needs to be pushed, it's Fi. Her Fi needs to learn to merge reality with her dreams in a for her acceptable way, and that takes time. As for Te, tell that thing to sit on its ass, behave and wait its turn, for realz. If she's smart, it'll get its marching orders when Fi is good and ready and not a moment sooner.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Priori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Coz then I'd recommend you get her all of Helen Fisher's books, starting with 'The anatomy of Love'.

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  9. #29
    Senior Member wildflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Does she have many opportunities to interact with guys relatively close in age? If not, it might help to find some. Not dating or bar situations, but more like hobbies, clubs, community/volunteer groups, etc. where she can spend time with guys in no-pressure situations where dating is not even on the radar. This might help her relax around guys more, get to know a few just as friends, and see where things lead.
    this. it sounds like she is quite perfectionistic and just reducing the pressure is a good way to deal with that. years ago i read some dating book and it suggested just going out and becoming friends with six guys. i think it is quite good advice as it takes the pressure off, it may or may not turn into something else later and you get to learn how to just be around guys and become more comfortable with them. [deleted my comment about getting professional help as i see she's only 20. she'll grow out of this.]

  10. #30
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Chances are she'll get swept off her feet by the wrong guy and have her heart broken.. But that's part of life.

    I don't have an issue with the opposite sex at all.. but I am still shy and nervous and don't really know how to date. I don't know how to create a connection because usually connections find their way into my life on their own. Making one is a process I haven't really trained on. But I can relate to much of what is said.. She's not wrong for having high standards, but what I frequently ended up doing was mistaking standards for excuses. A great question I found for myself is.. ".. While I know all of the bad and good I have done, I do love myself.. why do I think that I wouldn't love someone if they aren't perfect?" I think it is important to know the main ideas she wants out of a relationship, but she may not even realize she is destroying potential relationships based on nothing but assumptions. I realized I was being very cruel that way.. I wouldn't want someone to assume things about me without really getting to know me.

    Anyways, if she's as awesome as you say she'll find someone that appreciates her. The question is will she appreciate others by then? She's probably destroyed a couple potentially good relationships (maybe not love, or marriage-potential, or even long term..) by procrastinating on changing the way she thinks and, honestly, growing up a bit. I acted the same way at around her age.. But in the end, if you can't be friends with males and feel comfortable around them, you really can't be much more to them. You have to understand what people need, and you have to know what you need so you can communicate it. Men aren't psychics, or miracle-workers.
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