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  1. #11
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    You shold intro her to a "good guy" as a friend and sneak courtship upon her. With her walls up that's the best bet.
    That has been tried. We have male cousins about her age who tried to introduce her to his friends, but she apparently wasn't having it. Didn't even really talk to the guys. Her best friend at college has also tried to set her up with people/ show her the ropes with flirting, ect similarly to no avail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Your sister's two issues are the same issue, as you suggested. Her standards are just her way to keep men at arm's length.

    Why is she terrified of the opposite sex? Or rather, a sexualized relationship with the opposite sex? That seems key.
    Yes. She has a very vivid fantasy life. The men she seems to be the most attracted to, or express the most interest in are guys from the anime she watches. She's highly sensitive, and I recognize this as her way of protecting herself. I think that's a large part of the fear, and the rest seems to stem from inexperience. She overthinks things a lot, and frequently gets trapped in her own head. Nothing is ever simple for her. She can't just do something. She has to fret about every possible scenario and how they could make her feel and why. She psychs herself out a lot. She's also incredibly stubborn. No one can tell her that things aren't as big of a deal as she's making them without her feeling like people aren't taking her feelings seriously enough. It makes it extra frustrating for the people she goes to for help.

    Quote Originally Posted by River View Post
    Also, is she comfortable discussing her sexuality? Would confusion about that be a problem in your family and/or culture?
    No. Those aren't things she's comfortable with. She's fairly prim, really, and comes by it honestly. We come from a fairly traditional Southern background. We were raised with the idea that we young ladies, and there were certain things that were expected of us. I had never considered it, but I think it's accurate to say my sister took those ideas to heart a great deal more than I did (though I do have my moments). Part of the reason this whole dating thing is such a big deal to her is that her singular goal in life is to get married and have kids. So it's frustrating to her that she's so ineffectual in the one area of her life that means the most to her.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  2. #12
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    err, thats c alled performance anxiety. She doesnt want to act on her dreams coz it'll corrupt them with reality
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  3. #13
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I don't know about her, but I have this HUGE trouble with getting over the "hump" into starting something. Getting a new job, starting a relationship, really anything. It's like as soon as I start considering something new, I'm paralyzed with extreme commitment phobia. My boyfriend had to really push, push, push me to see him in a romantic light, and then even more to actually get me to go out with him. I think now I would have a much easier time with starting a relationship, though. It's just that first one that's so terrifying, especially as you get older and start to realize that people could hold your age + inexperience against you.
    I feel this is what it's going to take for her. Some guy whose interested enough and confident enough to see through her bitch act, and really take her on. The age + experience thing is another great point. She's just so innocent, you know? Like she literally knows nothing, and I'm terrified at the idea of something going wrong for her. And it definitely does occur to me that some people assume the worst about her behavior simply because she's old enough that she should know how to reciprocate on some level, and the fact that she doesn't makes her come off as even more of a frigid bitch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Is she intrigued by Love and Guys in general, and wants to know more? And afraid of putting it into practice?

    Coz then I'd recommend you get her all of Helen Fisher's books, starting with 'The anatomy of Love'.

    I'tll give her Fi the info it desperately needs to find some parameters on how to judge the guys approaching her ,as well as the info it needs to understand what love is all about and what kind of love woudl feel 'right' to her, before jumping in, as such. I personally seek shelter and safety when I feel uncomfortable about something by reading about it, and researching real life examples, in order to get an oversight of what to expect (terrified Si).
    Books might be a good idea, and are another thing I hadn't considered. My dad bought her and I copies of that Steve Harvey book, but that might have been a little more advanced than what she was ready for.

    But yeah, I think books would be a way for her to work through some of the issues she's dealing with without feeling like she's having advice forced on her. This is a really great idea. Thank you.

    Meanwhile, if she ever wants to do a q and a, i'm up for it
    Aww, thanks, dear. I'll be sure to pass along the offer.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  4. #14
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I was hoping that someone might have advice/perspective to share for my ENFP sister.

    My baby sister is beautiful, intelligent, and immensely charming, but genuinely struggles with boy-girl stuff. She's turning 20 this year and has yet to kiss a guy, much less date one. I only ask because it's the source of a great deal of consternation for her, and I'd like to be able to help.

    From what I can tell it seems to break down to two somewhat related issues for her. She's got ridiculously high standards, and won't give 99.9% of guys the time of day. She's incredibly exacting about how she wants to be approached, and will brush a guy off in a heartbeat. Meanwhile, she's basically terrified of the opposite sex, so when one comes along that she does like, she's completely at a loss on how to interact with them. In fact, the only males she interacts with regularly are her gay guy friends.

    She's talked to most of the women in my family, and we're all kind of at a loss on how to help her. At this point, the fear is that she will get swept off her feet by the wrong kind of guy and get her heartbroken.

    Clearly, it's not exactly a life or death issue, but it weighs on her a lot. Any thoughts that ya'll would be willing to share would be appreciated.

    (She's also a 6w7 if that's helpful.)
    I knew that she was a sexual 6 before you even said it at the bottom. I know two different women like this. The way that they usually date is to do online dating. Usually they hate to be approached in public and drive most men crazy in both good and bad ways because they are they have such a hot and cold approach to a relationship. Also, if I were you I would try to hook up my sister with an 8 because they tend to do well with 6w7 SX types. After all 8's like to conquer things and love challenges, and the 6w7 SX woman's coquettish nature will provide quite the challenge.

    If you have a profile on personality cafe look up a user called, "Pink Rasputin" she was an old friend of mine and she has your sister's exact same mbti type, enneagram, wing, and variants. She could probably help you.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Your sister's two issues are the same issue, as you suggested. Her standards are just her way to keep men at arm's length.

    Why is she terrified of the opposite sex? Or rather, a sexualized relationship with the opposite sex? That seems key.
    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    yeah, furrina makes a good point about flirting with intent. you know what i'm awesome at? flirting. you know what i suck at? flirting because i actually want to get someone's attention. i, like, shut down. i get all quiet and serious when i actually like someone - because all of a sudden it matters. it's like the total reversal of what is expected. and it probably has shut plenty of people down in the past.
    These statements rang quite true for me and my own experiences. Not that we have a hive-fi mind but this would be a good insight into the inner workings of your sister's situation. The seed pearl of it all.

    However, I am unable to really offer any concrete, useful advice at this time. Perhaps it is helpful enough that you all are on the right breadcrumb trail through the forest.

  6. #16
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Encourage her. Tell her that you love her and want her to be happy. Tell her that at some point it does boil down to being willing to take a risk and that perfectionism will hold her back from discovering someone whom she could have a wonderful relationship with.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  7. #17
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentfurrina View Post
    one possibility: she is discerning...and more intelligent than most men her age know what to do with. when combined with beauty + the sensitivity + ideals of an ENFP, the net result is that she will probably take a long time to warm up to the idea of dating and intimacy. we are hyper-conscious of hidden meaning in people's actions, including our own, and until our basic behavioral "map" of cause/effect is complete, and until we know precisely what we want out of a situation, there may be far too many unknowns to safely take risks. we are also sometimes overwhelmed by our emotions to take effective action, even when we identify someone with whom we want to share those emotions.

    i was ~ 22 before i seriously dated anyone...before i took any man seriously enough to pursue or allow to pursue me. most men my age didn't know how to handle me or how to get me to interact with them in meaningful ways. they pursued me but made fools of themselves along the way, and it caused me to more closely examine the concepts of love and attraction. i also had no "future vision" for our interactions and was hesitant to expend emotional energy on such pursuits, when books held more excitement and zero possibility of being hurt.

    so i observed for a very long time and took baby steps before i entrusted anyone with my heart. simply because the stakes are so high and relationships require an understanding of pretty odd rituals, such as flirting with intent. we also need time to figure out which types of men interest us and can access our inner core.

    do you know anything about the types of men she's interested in? personalities, their dynamic? that would be helpful.
    Thank you for sharing this. A lot of what you've mentioned about yourself definitely rings true for her, especially what you've said about her being intimidating to guys her own age. One of her biggest complaints is actually that the men she tends to attract are so much older. Like, 20-30 years older. And they hold positively zero interest for her. Was this true for you as well?

    The men that she seems to be most attracted to are IFJs. She likes guys who are sensitive, nurturing, and maybe a little brooding. She definitely wants a Feeler. Someone who can match her emotional intensity. She was raised in a house with three TJs, and has limited patience for our kind. She wants someone who speaks her language and who revels in the nuances of emotional gestures as much she does. He also has to be extremely attractive. She's a lookist to the extreme, and tends to gravitate towards pretty boys. He'll also have to be pretty fucking smart, or he's not gonna make the cut either.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  8. #18
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I've skimmed, but not thoroughly read, the previous replies, so my apologies if I'm retreading ground that's already been covered, but, here's my take...

    Your sister needs to get over herself. In both the good way and the bad way.
    Oh no worries. You were in a brave new world with this one lol.


    On one hand, she seems to think she's too good for other guys.

    On the other hand, she's probably actually terribly insecure about herself.

    I recommend the following (I'm not sure if it will work, but it would be interesting to see if it does):

    1. She needs to realize that when she starts acting like a fool when she's around a guy that she's attracted to, well, that's what every guy is going through when they try to ask her out. So who the hell is she to judge them for their potentially botched approaches that don't meet her exacting standards? I mean, she finds herself a catch, but she's not exactly smooth in this regard, right? Well, the single most important rule of morality is reciprocity: if she turns into a bumbling idiot when around someone she's attracted to, then she needs to realize she has no right to judge others for being the same way. We all should already realize this, but perhaps she needs to have it very flatly laid out to her. That can serve as an opening to the next step.

    2. Next, she needs to realize that a big part of her "exacting standards" and what not is a front to cover up her own insecurity. It's fine to have high standards, but it's not okay to use high standards as an excuse for inaction or to cover up one's own insecurities.
    I mean, first of all, I could tell her these things, but my sister would basically shut me down. Second, I don't feel that telling her that boys are just as scared as you are, so cut them some slack, or calling her out for fronting for her insecurity are really effective ways of addressing the underlying insecurity issues. Then again, I don't really know. She's so sensitive that we really don't have "Come to Jesus" chats with her, and especially not with a subject like this. I dunno. I just have the distinct feeling that she would double down rather than seeing that all she was being told was, "Hey, get over yourself and get into the game." Nothing is just that simple for her.

    Now, part of me says she's a young, irrational girl, and, as such, the above rational approach won't actually work, but, frankly, it's what she needs to hear/recognize, and I'd be interested to see what comes of her being told/coming to realize/accept these truths.
    I do wonder what she'd do if some guy who was chatting her up came along and some shit like this to her.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I mean, first of all, I could tell her these things, but my sister would basically shut me down. Second, I don't feel that telling her that boys are just as scared as you are, so cut them some slack, or calling her out for fronting for her insecurity are really effective ways of addressing the underlying insecurity issues. Then again, I don't really know. She's so sensitive that we really don't have "Come to Jesus" chats with her, and especially not with a subject like this. I dunno. I just have the distinct feeling that she would double down rather than seeing that all she was being told was, "Hey, get over yourself and get into the game." Nothing is just that simple for her.
    I don't see it so much as challenging her.

    It's more just making her aware that this is the truth.

    From what I've seen, ENFPs work a lot based off guilt.

    This intervention is basically an Fi values intervention.

    It's telling her, "Guess what? Your values are whack."

    Sometimes ENFPs need to hear this shit.

    It's essentially Te reforming bad Fi.

  10. #20
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Not in that way, however.
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