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  1. #101
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    An artist who lacks an empirical understanding of his tools and medium will have trouble expressing his artistic visions. A scientist who has no intuitive feel for his subject of study will miss those anomalous observations that lead to new understandings. It is not apples and oranges but apples and broccoli: fruits and vegetables, and we need both.

    Answering emotional problems emotionally is like treating an alcoholic by giving him booze.
    I don't think you realise what I'm saying. Balance is important, but the solutions required for a particular problem often comes from that particular field. With this case that we're talking about here, do you INTJ's REALLY think that Rex and co. haven't tried the usual Te methods? Do you guys really think that just telling her the truth is going to change anything? Do you guys even realise that this ENFP, in all likelihood, knows exactly what's wrong with her yet still has problems with it? Ladies and gentleman, this isn't an example of an everyday ENFP with her problems. This is a particularly unhealthy individual who has grown up in a Te household and does not react well with that form of communication. Chances are she knows all the facts and knows she should change but has certain emotional constraints that she can't let go of. What needs to be done is her to realise why she has this emotional barrier and exactly what she's holding onto/afraid of. Then when she can let this go, it is only then when she could change, this is why I suggested the enneagram. Let me make myself clear, no one here is trying to belittle logic or the place of rational thinking. It simply is not the tool required for this job.
    Chimera of Filth

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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    What needs to be done is her to realise why she has this emotional barrier and exactly what she's holding onto/afraid of. Then when she can let this go, it is only then when she could change.
    Enter....*drumroll*..... Te.


  3. #103
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    Enter....*drumroll*..... Te.

    The problem is that the bluntness of Te won't get through to her. It'll need to be Ne + Fi, mostly Fi.
    Chimera of Filth

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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    The problem is that the bluntness of Te won't get through to her. It'll need to be Ne + Fi, mostly Fi.
    Te does not have to be blunt. It is a neutral process/structure for synthesizing. Fi naturally responds to it, because it is the opposite side of the coin and completes the picture it is wired to put together.

  5. #105
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    She won't be able to recognize her own emotional barrier until she can get enough distance from it to see it. This is where the impersonal analysis of Te comes in. Te is not synonymous with bluntness, more with rationality, and I fail to see how "irrational thinking" will do anything but send the individual in question further down her rabbit hole. As Einstein said, "Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them."

    Edit: animenagai is right about enneagram, though, since it addresses fundamental motivations/fears and is not tied to any particular cognitive process.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #106
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Yeah OK, you need some sort of impersonal analysis but ultimately this comes down to the ENFP shifting her personal values. I don't see how this is not Fi. A Te heavy approach like Zarathustra was talking about will not do it. Fi and Te are 2 sides of the same coin, but it'll be Fi more than Te.
    Chimera of Filth

    A gruesome beast with dripping flesh
    Clings to me as a sick fixture
    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

  7. #107
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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  8. #108
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    I don't think you realise what I'm saying. Balance is important, but the solutions required for a particular problem often comes from that particular field. With this case that we're talking about here, do you INTJ's REALLY think that Rex and co. haven't tried the usual Te methods? Do you guys really think that just telling her the truth is going to change anything? Do you guys even realise that this ENFP, in all likelihood, knows exactly what's wrong with her yet still has problems with it? Ladies and gentleman, this isn't an example of an everyday ENFP with her problems. This is a particularly unhealthy individual who has grown up in a Te household and does not react well with that form of communication. Chances are she knows all the facts and knows she should change but has certain emotional constraints that she can't let go of. What needs to be done is her to realise why she has this emotional barrier and exactly what she's holding onto/afraid of. Then when she can let this go, it is only then when she could change, this is why I suggested the enneagram. Let me make myself clear, no one here is trying to belittle logic or the place of rational thinking. It simply is not the tool required for this job.
    I am like this as well
    I need time to process things through my Fi before I can act on them, even when I know where the problem is. It needs to feel *right* first. At first it frustrated me, especially since the outside world tends to go *do something already!'* But I learned, over time, that if I take the problem to muse on the problem, however long that takes, it eventually leads me to put my first step into action, once I figure out how it all fits together and it *feels* right.

    That's why backing off and letting new perspectives given to a Fi-user be processed is so important and why demanding action is detrimental

    It makes use have to start all over again..like a puzzle we're putting together and you just messed up the pieces coz you demand us to stop thinking about it and finish it already, instead of prepping and pondering by putting the pieces in order before starting the puzzle. And once again, we have to gather all the pieces, sort them out, put them the right way up and start the frame from scratch. It's frustrating to say the least, plus it makes us feel like losers that apparently, we need more time to do something, and even when we do it, it's not up to your standards and is considered 'unproductive' and 'lazy' or simply 'stupid'.
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  9. #109
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    I'm going over some of the more recent posts, and, I'm not sure I'm gunna be able to write a full post right now, so I just want to say that, while I think some of what @animenagai is saying is accurate, I think what @Mia. and @Coriolis are saying trumps what he is saying. Everything they're reacting negatively to about what you've said, Animegai, is the same stuff I had a negative reaction to. I think your claim that "emotional problems require emotional answers" is not very easy to defend.

  10. #110
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I am like this as well
    I need time to process things through my Fi before I can act on them, even when I know where the problem is. It needs to feel *right* first. At first it frustrated me, especially since the outside world tends to go *do something already!'* But I learned, over time, that if I take the problem to muse on the problem, however long that takes, it eventually leads me to put my first step into action, once I figure out how it all fits together and it *feels* right.

    That's why backing off and letting new perspectives given to a Fi-user be processed is so important and why demanding action is detrimental
    I am not demanding, or even suggesting, action so much as analysis: looking at the situation with as much objectivity and distance as one can muster; seeing it for what it is rather than what one wishes it to be; dissecting, categorizing, labelling, and evaluating things. This process will invariably involve Fi, otherwise one lacks a critical yardstick against which to measure what we observe. Sound decisions and productive actions cannot happen without this. We all know what happens when people act in haste, or essentially go off half-cocked.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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