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Thread: Ni in xNFJs? =\

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ribonuke's Avatar
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    Default Ni in xNFJs? =\

    Okay, so I'm wondering about the use of Introverted Intuition in xNFJs.

    @Daedalus made a thread similarly discussing Ni (link: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...-thoughts.html ), but I was wondering what it would look like in someone with a more Fe-based perspective? (It's probably the same for xNxJs, but I felt like I'd more likely attract the opinion of fellow NFs in this forum instead.)

    For me, Ni just came naturally. I often come to conclusions that seem blatantly obvious to me, yet seem unique and insightful to others. One of my friends was apparently jealous of my ability to 'cross-reference' everything, to relate things to eachother or think of things that she had not considered in our creative endeavors. This is because I'm always consulting my previous knowledge for new possibilities or insights as a means of understanding the world. In other words, I want to relate new data to my internal understanding of the workings of the world; basically, instead of reaching out and discovering new possibilities, I reach WITHIN and work on comparing this situation with what I already know.

    One might argue that this sounds like Si, but from what I understand, Si has more to do with comparing a new situation to something previously experienced or looking into something down to the most basic facts. However, what I'm doing here is instead of comparing it to something I've already experienced, I'm trying actively MERGE this new external reality with what I already know. So it's remapping the situation from a bird's-eye view, basically as if I'm noticing a new landscape, then ADDING it to my internal map, instead of saying "Well...this isn't on the map! I have no idea!" which'd be (I think) more of an Si reaction. (I apologize if that comes off as offensive to any predominantly Si-users; I didn't mean for it to be so!)

    ((Haha, also, I just noticed that my worry about Si-users taking offense to that statement was an instance of Ni and Fe; I was composing that sentence, and then I realized that others could potentially view that sentence in a pejorative way, hence the disclaimer highlighting that possibility and clarifying my more neutral intent.))

    So...any insights?
    Last edited by Ribonuke; 07-01-2012 at 12:01 PM.

  2. #2
    defying your expectations SoraMayhem's Avatar
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    To illustrate Ni + Fe, allow me to post a conversation that I had only a few moments ago with a male INFJ friend.

    Me:btw, guess why i'll be in illinois in november
    INFJ:Why? =o
    INFJ:Getting married or something?
    Me:My honeymoon >.>
    Me:WTF
    Me:HOW DID YOU DO THAT
    INFJ:xD I'Z PASYCHIC
    Me:SERIOUSLY ARE YOU A WIZARD
    INFJ:lololol
    Me: but wow
    Me: lucky guess
    INFJ: Well, not so much lucky as I just love my friends and have an acute sense of empathy.
    INFJ: Even if I haven't talked to friends in ages, I normally can guess what they've been up to down to relationships, fights in said relationships, job things. etc
    Smacked me in the face with Ni+Fe right there.
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    I like the kaleidoscope analogy someone has used on this forum (I can't remember who. My memory is terrible. )
    I'm just going to be quite candid about what some of my experience of what could be termed as Ni related phenomena is, despite the snickerability and "I bet" factor being incredibly high. Oh well. Here goes:
    I have a voracious appetite when it comes to anything that piques my interest, though my tastes are eclectic with a couple of favorite areas I use as a reference point. Everything that seems interesting for some reason is filed somewhere in the great unseen index of the mind for later use. I think I'm a person who is very guided by my unconscious mind. It kind of works via a type of meta-awareness. I pay attention to where my attention is going in the outside world. If I notice I've been noticing maybe a specific animal like an owl many times over more than usual I'd take that as an interesting thing to look at. I often find out what let's say an owl means in different contexts and since I write I go back to the themes I've been working on. I kind of work as an investigator and usually what happens is in this indirect way I can suddenly get an epiphany about my own life and what direction I should go. The whole owl business was about death and rebirth, letting go and a specific incident in my life that I had neglected to deal with and approaching ends. This time I was also kind of forewarned by my mind of deaths that were going to occur (Elderly people so the signs were there.)
    That's one way it works for me.
    I also create in a way that I mull over my areas of interest, which are very related to human interests or arts. I'm always working on something, a long term project, and what happens is I'm usually somewhere inconvenient, like the bank or the shower and suddenly everything comes together. It' like taking down dictation. Somewhere the clogs have turned and I get a rush of material that gives an overall piece of work nearly complete in my mind. The theme, visuals, bits of lyric, it's like a movie starts playing in my mind.
    I've noticed these themes usually emerge in the cultural field a little after, sometimes in a startlingly similar way. I can only suspect they are a kind of an incoming cultural meme, some issues mulling in the collective unconscious which influence me, but as I pay so much attention to my own thoughts, feelings and dreams and am a part of the world sometimes the greater movements kind of get filtered through my personality and I become faintly aware of them before they start to really manifest properly so that they are readily apparent, get refined and become in time a part of the now. It's a running joke me and my ENFJ friend have when we meet, they'll say something like "What have you been up to" and I'll say "I've been looking into self sufficiency and buying a house in the countryside" and they'll say "Me too, of course" and we'll laugh our butts off. Maybe it's the same area too. I's like having an inside joke, because of the thermometer of society way we operate. We usually start having similar thoughts as they start emerging out of the collective hive mind. It's very funny if you're aware of it.
    I find that my ENFJ friends are very good at predicting peoples' behavior and reading people. I mean very, very good. Two people I know who would almost qualify as psychic are both ENFJs. I have my moments of sudden epiphanies, though that has to be clearly distinguished from the other 95% of the time, where your guess is as good as mine, maybe better. It doesn't work that way for me. It's kinda like a fart. Sometimes you can guess it's coming but most of the time it happens when you least want it to. To me it's like having this annoying all knowing oracle guy in my head. I'm minding my own business and suddenly there it is. To illustrate how annoying it is, I had once been through a terrible time, I was utterly been at the bottom, very depressed. Little by little I start pulling myself up by my boot straps and things start going my way, that's when I meet this amazing guy. We become thick as thieves, move in together and sun is shining on me like never before. We're walking down the street and he says "We're in this together, right till the end." and I say "Yes". In my mind I hear the little oracle say "No. Two and a half years.". I decide to ignore it. But the little bugger is always right. I'm wrong, but that part of me is very very accurate. I can see others find that annoying, trust me, I do too. It happens very rarely though. And always when I don't want it to especially. I can kind of convince myself of something like the next guy, but I also have that "oracle" too, and the oracle means business. It's also lead me into very embarrassing situations where if I'm distracted by shiny objects or something I can just come out and say what's on my mind. Once I was at a friend's new bfs house and he said "I'm a bit of a yuppie" I said Nah, don't be so hard on yourself...If you were there'd be a blue bottle of schnapps in your closet there with pretentious mini glasses with a record collection comprising of a Sade, Enya and Toto cd. He looked at me very angrily and opened his closet...Lo and behold. Try fixing that fiasco. Way to go Ni. Make me popular.
    Being able to put things in several contexts and rewriting things is something I'm very happy about because I can help people if they get stuck with seeing something in a certain unhealthy way. It ain't all bad. And re-contextualizing known myths can also empower people in a larger capacity. It's healing and good.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ribonuke's Avatar
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    @Reverie

    xDDD I can't quote that whole post because it's so long, but there were quite a few things in there I felt like I could relate to: the idea that something keeps occurring to you on a subconscious level, such as your example with owls, which then piques your curiosity to the point where you look up information about it to see how it ties into your life.

    Also, I think your example with the little oracle in your mind predicting the impermanence of your relationship with that one guy rings true to me as well; however, the visions or impressions I get are completely my own, and not necessarily distanced from them in a way as if there were a little entity inside my head.

    For instance, there's this one song by Pendulum called "Hold Your Colour" that always seems to leave me unsettled whenever I think about it; usually I don't mind music like this, but what was bothering me about this particular song was that I didn't know WHY I felt unsettled. I listened to it again yesterday, and realized it was giving me an impression of pregnancy and conception. Sure enough, when I look at the lyrics, my conclusion seemed to make more and more sense. While this is arguably not what Pendulum had in mind when they wrote this song, what matters is that I felt emotionally perturbed by the song without a conscious reason, but then the reason all of a sudden surfaced without warning.

    So it's basically like...I get the impression of something first, but then I have to retrace my steps to figure out WHY I had that impression? This is in contrast to how some other people draw a conclusion based off of consciously piecing together the facts or expanding upon possibilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverie View Post
    I like the kaleidoscope analogy someone has used on this forum (I can't remember who. My memory is terrible. )
    This analogy was used by @The Great One in this thread here:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...6398&p=1882816

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    @RaptorWizard Thank you. My head's a sieve. I loved it because I think it illustrates it well. In my mind I can easily see Ni in that way. Constantly shifting and permutating.

    I was thinking about the difference between Fi which I think of as a mossy, organic, branching tree.

    (I got sidetracked...)
    @Ribonuke I don't think it's an entity either, though I could see why it could feel like that to someone. But frankly I'm undecided about how to talk about it. I can't say this or that about what it is...Ni or what. It just happens.
    I'm somewhat into the paranormal and have had experiences that defy any rationale...so I'm in judgement pending mode. Right now I really like MBTI ( giving it the old let's suppose all of it is true and reframe everything via MBTI ) and like the explanations and the model, but as is often stated sometimes INFJs can hold on to many seemingly contradicting beliefs at the same time. I reserve the suspension of disbelief on paranormal issues since I like to also know what excactly it is I'm not beliveing. It also appears many who view life in that context don't believe things work like that objectively, but subjectively it's different. It's really complex. I don't think I explained well what I'm after. But maybe it's best not to be calling it the oracle...I don't know... head voices... er... no, that's not good! ixnay on the voices.

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    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Ni is the reason I suck at telling people about movies I saw or why I have difficulty sticking to an outline on an essay. Every detail is relevant and it's hard to hit the high points because everything is interconnected. I never realized that until a little while ago.

    On the other hand, I've also been surprised to realize that Ni is the Look-Down-The-Road function that allows one to usually predict where a course of action may likely lead a person to. I have been frustrated and surprised that this is not as self-evident to other types, but finally noticed that the other people who do this are Ni users. It also has helped me to undesrtand that I am not being rude or insulting by explaining the whole thought process behind the conclusions I have reached, and in fact people feel frustrated or confused when I don't. While it is not 100% infallible, it is correct enough of the time, that I have found this trait quite useful in decision making.

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    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ribonuke View Post
    For me, Ni just came naturally. I often come to conclusions that seem blatantly honest to me, yet seem unique and insightful to others.
    Interesting word use, there.

    In my humble estimation, although it's usually not especially obvious to the person, and they'll probably even resist the assertion of it (I know I did), perception and judgment go together, meaning Ni isn't Ni so much as it's Ni(Ji). Actually, it's Ni(JeJiPe), but when it's active and groovin, it's Ni(Ji).... or some such nonsense.

    Blah blah blah, and all I really means is, there's something really interesting there about how introverted perceiving structured by introverted "objectivity" is (possibly quite) different to that perception as structured by introverted "subjectivity" (aka "feelings").
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Interesting word use, there.

    In my humble estimation, although it's usually not especially obvious to the person, and they'll probably even resist the assertion of it (I know I did), perception and judgment go together, meaning Ni isn't Ni so much as it's Ni(Ji). Actually, it's Ni(JeJiPe), but when it's active and groovin, it's Ni(Ji).... or some such nonsense.

    Blah blah blah, and all I really means is, there's something really interesting there about how introverted perceiving structured by introverted "objectivity" is (possibly quite) different to that perception as structured by introverted "subjectivity" (aka "feelings").
    Yeah, it is kind of bizarre how- and I’ve noticed this too (as much about myself as other INFJs I’ve known, a couple INTJs too)- that it can *seem* like one is simply noticing something ‘obvious’ about the external world but it’s actually mixed with judgment. Judgment is what arranges the puzzle pieces, puts them together a certain way- and it’ll seem like we’re noticing the way something *is* (without it seeming like we have judgment about it) but Ti and Fi can be bigger influences than we realize. Especially since it's so often correct, it's easy to take for granted.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Yeah, it is kind of bizarre how- and I’ve noticed this too (as much about myself as other INFJs I’ve known, a couple INTJs too)- that it can *seem* like one is simply noticing something ‘obvious’ about the external world but it’s actually mixed with judgment. Judgment is what arranges the puzzle pieces, puts them together a certain way- and it’ll seem like we’re noticing the way something *is* (without it seeming like we have judgment about it) but Ti and Fi can be bigger influences than we realize. Especially since it's so often correct, it's easy to take for granted.
    I assert it's progressive, though. At one (probably relatively high) level, Ni is bundles of concepts plus some constructive perception principle. But in order for the "function" to be dynamic, or even just minimally alive, then the bundles and the construction of the bundles have, in some sense, to be the same thing.... Pffft, that might not even be true, but it (maybe) captures what seems to me an important aspect of even inner perception: that it is never still. Judgment introduces some much needed fixity, even as this never stillness also introduces movement to that judgment. Et voila, progress.

    But it does depend quite a lot on--I want to say subjectivity.

    So it's interesting how there's different language the INFJs and the INTJs appear to use for that subjectivity. I noted the use of the word "honest" above, and I was aware of it as (or at least perceived it as being used as) an evaluation of a perception, and I doubted I would ever call a perception honest, so I though HAHA, INTROVERTED THINKING! And I've wondered for a long time what difference the presence of that makes.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

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