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[NF] INFP vs INFJ?

Ribonuke

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How come it's so difficult to externally differentiate INFPs and INFJs unless you have one of their opposite type to compare them to? Dx

It's like...for INFx's, it's much more difficult to determine the J and P types from eachother than other equivalents.

I can't seem to figure it out...does anyone have any insights?

(I know for certain I myself am an INFJ because of my Tert Ti and Inf Se)
 

Cloud of Thunder

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Maybe because they're both dominant Introverts and introverts tend not to vary much externally in real life.
 

Ribonuke

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Hmm...reading that leads me to ask...maybe I tend to sense a person's more introverted functions more dominantly at first?

Does an introvert's more dominant function seem to come off more strongly in text than it does typical interaction and conversation? (sorry if that didn't make much sense...kinda sleepy atm)
 

cascadeco

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Does an introvert's more dominant function seem to come off more strongly in text than it does typical interaction and conversation? (sorry if that didn't make much sense...kinda sleepy atm)

To me this is an obvious yes, but maybe I'm making it too simplistic.

I mean, when we're writing, such as on a site like this, we're able to take our time to try to make sense of our internal thoughts and get them out in writing, and often people break down their internal workings (or attempt to).

In person, the bulk of what you're gonna see is the external, unless the person is actually trying to unravel and show their internal. The more introverted they are, the less you'll have to work with and the less you'll really be able to get a sense of their internal disposition.

So w/ INFP's, you'd see more of the Ne, w/ INFJ's, the Fe. In theory. In my personal experience, I think I can't resonate as much with the OP, just because I think the Ne can be pretty obvious in NFP's, and it's just something that's lacking in NFJ's. If anything, I would think it would be easier to confuse INFJ's with ISFJ's (shared Fe), at least on the surface/initially. Or depending on context, INFJ's with ISxP's (shared Fe/Se). Until or unless either actually starts divulging their thoughts and concerns/perspectives in the world, and that's when the internal functions will become more obvious.
 

Forever_Jung

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Here's some good advice, never visit Vicky Jo's website, and you should be just fine.

Edit: Also, Ne is suuuch a dead giveaway. Learn to spot Ne, and you will never confuse to the two again.
 

Forever_Jung

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+ 1,000,000!!! That site should be obliterated from the internet.

On the other hand, she sure knows how to tastefully integrate dolphins into her web design. Not to mention:

CPCC, PCC, IGIP, JCDC, ORSCer!
MBTI Master Practitioner
Professional Life Coach &
Type Discovery Specialist
sometimes known as "The Type Fairy"

Haha, Type Fairy, what a wit! And so qualified too!

That's the thing that makes me sad. These are the people who represent MBTI. The amateur internet typologists seem waaaay more knowledgeable then a lot of these so-called professionals. I don't think I would ever go to a workshop or a seminar, with those hacks running things.

edit: also, sorry, off-topic. So I will try to provide another tip for INFJ spotting:

They often have a weird relationship with the material world (oblivious to surroundings, maybe they overeat, don't eat enough, etc, etc.) Unless I just made that up. I think I read something similar from Mary Louise von Franz though.
 

Ribonuke

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On the other hand, she sure knows how to tastefully integrate dolphins into her web design. Not to mention:



Haha, Type Fairy, what a wit! And so qualified too!

That's the thing that makes me sad. These are the people who represent MBTI. The amateur internet typologists seem waaaay more knowledgeable then a lot of these so-called professionals. I don't think I would ever go to a workshop or a seminar, with those hacks running things.

edit: also, sorry, off-topic. So I will try to provide another tip for INFJ spotting:

They often have a weird relationship with the material world (oblivious to surroundings, maybe they overeat, don't eat enough, etc, etc.) Unless I just made that up. I think I read something similar from Mary Louise von Franz though.

XD I will agree, I was confused about that site, because it seems to focus more on the little itty-bitty details instead of the larger picture.

However, let me ask you...how DOES one spot Ne? How does it compare to Ni?
 
S

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I can't seem to figure it out...does anyone have any insights?

generally introverts are more difficult to pin point then extroverts because, duh, they don't express themselves with as much, so getting to know anything about them takes a bit longer, let alone indications of their type, particularly if you are an introvert yourself, since from my experience you guys seem to open up more easily with extroverts then with each other (though this anecdotal generalization might not always apply, alternatively it might only apply to sexual relationships and self-denying homo-erotic buddy-ism. also, introvert on introvert sex and extrovert on extrovert sex is a sin, i scribbled it in the corner of a bible i stole from a motel, so there you go).

but once you got close, INFPs and INFJs are not very difficult to differentiate.

INFJ: Ni>Ti>Fe>Se... naa, just kidding, that's just too awesome of a kind to exist in the MBTI. were where we? right:

INFJs: Ni>Fe>Ti>Se
INFPs: Fi>Ne>Si>Te

Ne vs. Ni:
if an INFx strike team tries to conquer idea-land in a creative or intellectual conversation, an INFPs creative spur would be the trooper going in with guns blazing in every direction they find, most likely ending up in a friendly fire mess that would turn the whole thing into a fiasco, while the INFJ's will be more like the precision sniper, most likely to kill the officer nobody likes while claiming it's the INFP's friendly fire which he'll get trialed for anyway but now gets the credits. why? because of...

Fe vs Fi:
take any sensitive social situation, find a time where what makes sense sociologically does not necessarily makes sense ethically, and the INFJ and INFP will declare war... actually the INFJ will declare it while the INFP will sort of slide into it opportunistically without really noticing, because of well.. P. the point is, if you hear the word "no this is wrong" and it refers to something that the person saying it wants to do but shouldn't do and then decides not to do, then its probably Fi, if you hear the words "no this is wrong" and it refers to someone else regarding something the person saying it has done a multitude of times themselves but has a reason to dislike the person they are referring too by saying it, it's probably Fe.

P vs. J
if you are getting to know them from... let's say a dating website or a blog rather then an actual conversation, there are some things that are a lot more likely to relate to Js -sticking to a special diet like being vegan or keeping kosher, being financially stable, obsessing about little details within their environment, etc.

and since you already expressed knowing the difference between Ti and Se... my job is done.
 

Ribonuke

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Ne vs. Ni:
if an INFx strike team tries to conquer idea-land in a creative or intellectual conversation, an INFPs creative spur would be the trooper going in with guns blazing in every direction they find, most likely ending up in a friendly fire mess that would turn the whole thing into a fiasco, while the INFJ's will be more like the precision sniper, most likely to kill the officer nobody likes while claiming it's the INFP's friendly fire which he'll get trialed for anyway but now gets the credits.

Best. Metaphor. EVER. What made it even more epic was the fact that I imagined it being read by Tyrion Lannister (coz of your avatar). XDDD

But in all seriousness, I have a question in regards to Ne and Ni and writing/planning fiction: I have a friend (who I strongly suspect is an INFP) with whom I'm casually working on a story with. He seems much more interested in actively brainstorming for new material in our stories or sharing his wacky ideas. I, on the other hand, often can't really come up with a new idea for this universe unless I'm inspired by another idea from a movie I've seen, or if I manage to connect some of his wackier ideas together into a cohesive plot. Also, his focus on the character develop seems to be much more focused on one particular character and the internal moral conflict they wrestle with of the course of the story. In contrast, I myself tend to focus more on external character development, the interactions and conflicts between all the characters in the story, and making sure the motives of each character is realistic and complex. So do our different styles and concerns in writing reflect a difference between Ne/Ni and Fi/Fe respectively?
 
S

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Best. Metaphor. EVER. What made it even more epic was the fact that I imagined it being read by Tyrion Lannister (coz of your avatar). XDDD

But in all seriousness, I have a question in regards to Ne and Ni and writing/planning fiction: I have a friend (who I strongly suspect is an INFP) with whom I'm casually working on a story with. He seems much more interested in actively brainstorming for new material in our stories or sharing his wacky ideas. I, on the other hand, often can't really come up with a new idea for this universe unless I'm inspired by another idea from a movie I've seen, or if I manage to connect some of his wackier ideas together into a cohesive plot. Also, his focus on the character develop seems to be much more focused on one particular character and the internal moral conflict they wrestle with of the course of the story. In contrast, I myself tend to focus more on external character development, the interactions and conflicts between all the characters in the story, and making sure the motives of each character is realistic and complex. So do our different styles and concerns in writing reflect a difference between Ne/Ni and Fi/Fe respectively?

the first part certainly sounds like good ol' Ni on Ne action to me, its why NJs/NPs can rarely seem to get enough of each other (until they had too much), so his certainly an NP.

the Fi parts through me off quite a bit to be honest, its why even though i enjoy a dose of fantasy/sci-fi, the whole Fi equivalent of "drama" - moral struggles - that you often see in the big names in the genre like LOTR and SW just puts me off a bit compared to let's say song of ice and fire or anything by Heinlein, on the other hand my parents (INTJ/ENFP) loved them and often attributed the fiction i prefer as "nihilistic and kind of empty"... good luck balancing those.
 

Ribonuke

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the first part certainly sounds like good ol' Ni on Ne action to me, its why NJs/NPs can rarely seem to get enough of each other (until they had too much), so his certainly an NP.

the Fi parts through me off quite a bit to be honest, its why even though i enjoy a dose of fantasy/sci-fi, the whole Fi equivalent of "drama" - moral struggles - that you often see in the big names in the genre like LOTR and SW just puts me off a bit compared to let's say song of ice and fire or anything by Heinlein, on the other hand my parents (INTJ/ENFP) loved them and often attributed the fiction i prefer as "nihilistic and kind of empty"... good luck balancing those.

I actually think this illustrates a perfect point; Star Wars and Lord of the Rings, as awesome as they are, have a hint of black-and-white morality that annoys me (because I like characters that are more conflicted and complex.) Your parents are ENFP and INTJ, which both theoretically use Fi more effectively than they do Fe. You and I prefer A Song of Fire and Ice (well, "Game of Thrones" for me, since I'm not much of a reader, I admit), and we (being ENTP and INFJ) theoretically use Fe more effectively than we do Fi. Since Fi involves more through-and-through good and evil, from what I've observed, I can understand why your parents would find LotR/Star Wars more appealing than we would. (Not that I don't LIKE Star Wars, but its simplified concept of 'good' and 'dark side' is a bit irritating to me, to be honest. The idea that someone 'succumbs to the dark side' through their actions contrasts with the way I view the world. It's not that I believe that we're all inherently good, but it's just I don't think you can judge whether something is 'good' or 'evil' unless you look at the larger picture, who it helps and/or who it hurts.)
 

Ribonuke

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But I like Vicky Jo.

I do too. ^^ However, I believe that site doesn't do a good job at highlighting how all those little details relate to the BIGGER picture. As in, how they ultimately reflect the difference between INFPs and INFJs.

A lot of what I read didn't make sense at first; it wasn't until remembering it in hindsight that I began to realize what she meant.
 

Eric B

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When it comes to Fe vs Fi (and Ti vs Te), she not only distorts things, but also uses it against people when she goes around disputing their type. (you're annoying the group. You must be an 'Fi user', putting your own values over those of everyone else"). I think a lot of the confusion of people struggling between NFJ/NFP and NTP/NFP are due to her influence.

Here's a whole discussion on this kind of stuff:
http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/11088-vicky-jo-infjs.html
 

cascadeco

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But I like Vicky Jo.

I can't say I know much about HER, but based on what she put out on her website (and I read the entirety of it about four years ago), I can extrapolate that I'd probably take issue with her, especially her methods.

It's just stereotyping galore; it becomes very rudimentary. She breaks everything into little pieces, and you can't make sense of all of it in a cohesive whole, because there are many contradictions and silly things she says about how you can discern one type or another that I think are very poor and simplistic interpretations of mbti (I can tell you right now that I didn't relate to half of her INFJ examples. However, I also didn't relate to half of her INFP examples). Her site is what made me become completely confused as to what my type was, back then - she does a great job of making a confusing mess of the theory and of mbti.
 

Ribonuke

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Okay, I think I understand. However, I admit I'm feeling a little uncomfortable by the direction this thread is turning, and I would rather try to herd the focus back towards the main subject... (Not because you guys are offending me, but because I'm worried about offending other people.)

Anyways, so...back to the Ne vs Ni/ Fe vs Fi debate? ^^;
 

Rail Tracer

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Here's some good advice, never visit Vicky Jo's website, and you should be just fine.

Edit: Also, Ne is suuuch a dead giveaway. Learn to spot Ne, and you will never confuse to the two again.

Those were the days :laugh:
 
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