OrangeAppled
Sugar Hiccup
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2009
- Messages
- 7,626
- MBTI Type
- INFP
- Enneagram
- 4w5
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
My ideal match has definitely been ESTJ. I'm speaking of those who are Te + Si and extroverted rational in Jung, not the shallow mbti portrait. You have to read Jung on Te + Si to get the ESTJ type.
Wow, I do see ENFJ is a frequent choice on the poll. I think there's been some major misleading mbti influence on your typings.
I base my typings on Jung. You seem to have a Socionics slant to your understanding. Much of what you say seems based on that, not Jung, IMO. To me, Socionics is not faithful to Jung and has a very different take on the functions.
I'm not doubting you or your partner's type nor saying INFPs & ESTJs can't work out, but I don't think the rest of us are wrong either. I think successful "dual" pairings are more rare than not.
As Jung describes, Fe and Fi are completely dousing, disorienting, barbaric thought processes to one another. INFPs and ENFJs easily miscommunicate and struggle between Fx, Nx, Sx, and Tx, having much all around relational difference and discomfort.
I don't see Jung's descriptions saying that... what he touches on with Fi and Fe is brief, and not so terrible & opposed as you make out. I don't find the conflicts with Fe any worse than with Te. There ARE conflicts, and the miscommunication is real, but it is not unmanageable. Both types prefer to evaluate with Feeling, which goes a long way to bridging gaps. Je is hard for me in general, so the commonality of simply preferring Feeling can help.
Frankly, most ESTJs treat me like a degenerate who snuck in the back door and is out to destroy the order of the universe. At best, they dismiss me as harmless but silly, and ignore me. I'm either overrated in my ability to destroy & rebel or underrated in every other way. I don't have this problem with other xxTJs, which is interesting.
Also, I find they don't take any personal interest in me, which is a problem. I need personal interest reciprocated. I'm not really sure what these people expect to bond over.... When I've dated people seriously, it's because they always made me feel like I was the most interesting person in the room for them. With ESTJs, I feel like they just want an audience, especially "followers" who admire them and want their guidance. Well, I don't want to date a DAD figure.
And frankly, they never talk about anything in depth. They may have some strong moral convictions, but it's so cut & dry I'm not even charmed by it. All they talk about is what they're going to DO, how they'll meet some goal, etc. Their Ne is not engaging as it is with an NP. Their humor is a performance; it lacks the connecting an NP will do (which often hits on some deeper truth too - real wit). I like mutual banter, not watching someone else who thinks they're funny.
And they certainly don't seem impressed by me. I constantly have the feeling of being totally misunderstood and unfairly judged. Even my positive traits get demonized by them. Instead of being seen as creative, book smart & empathetic, I get interpreted as snobby, bizarre, and moody.
I actually had a small crush on an ESTJ not so long ago, but once I opened my eyes and became rational again, my distaste became even deeper. I realized just how fundamentally incompatible I am with such a person, and how they could never, ever even begin to grasp me. Perhaps I don't really grasp them either; I'm okay with admitting that.
While ENFJs have the cult leader thing going on, at least they can be charming and personable
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I don't know the INFP's ideal then. I continue to be melodramatic and think there is none. Or perhaps each individual INFP is so individual there can be no standard
I've never had a meaningful relationship with an ENFJ and have never been able to feel anywhat close to them without serious problems occurring. I honestly believe you're mistaking what INFP and ENFJ are, as never do these types coexist like this relationally.
I've had meaningful relationships with ESTJs, but it's usually a woman friend, and it's not typical. We don't seem to run in the same circles much either, but ENFJs and I often share a lot of common interests. I've connected emotionally with ENFJs much more deeply as well.
Your view seems very much led by Socionics though....
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I got this from typelogic, and I personally find its type relations more accurate, however brief and vague.
Anyone see an "ideal" in these? They look more promising than Socionics (which maks everything but the dual look hopeless).
For an INFP:
INTJ - Advisor: each has an area of insight that the other lacks
ESFJ - Cohort: mutually drawn into experiential escapades
INTP - Companion: similar modes of expression: bear each other's company well
INFJ - Complement: compatible strengths with opposite emphases
ISTJ - Supplement: like Pal, but functions are farther removed; each can add to the other's strengths
ENTP - Tribesman: share a sense of culture, but with different interests and abilities
ESTJ - Anima/Animus: each is the other's inferior function
ENFJ - Contrast: point and counterpoint on each function
ESFP - Counterpart: perform similar functions in totally different realms
ISTP - Enigma: a puzzle; totally foreign in nearly every facet
INFP - Identity: same type; a typological mirror-image
ISFP - Neighbor: arrive at the same place by variant processes
ESTP - Novelty: intriguingly different, interestingly so
ENFP - Pal: work and play well together; minimal natural type conflict
ENTJ - Pedagogue: each is both the other's mentor and student; has a "parent to child" feel
ISFJ - Suitemate: a person one might be comfortable sharing an office. Prefer similar climates, but don't necessarily have much in common as far as goals or world view