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View Poll Results: INFPs: Which type do you think is your ideal romantic match?

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  • ESTJ

    3 3.85%
  • ISTJ

    0 0%
  • ESTP

    5 6.41%
  • ISTP

    3 3.85%
  • ENTJ

    4 5.13%
  • INTJ

    5 6.41%
  • ENTP

    4 5.13%
  • INTP

    12 15.38%
  • ENFJ

    16 20.51%
  • INFJ

    7 8.97%
  • ENFP

    6 7.69%
  • INFP

    8 10.26%
  • ESFJ

    0 0%
  • ISFJ

    2 2.56%
  • ESFP

    3 3.85%
  • ISFP

    0 0%
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  1. #121
    Senior Member flameskull95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    INTPs having stronger than Fi over Fe does sound intuitively correct to me. Ti evaluation of the Fe function would simulate the Fi function. Likewise the INFP's would simulate Ti very well. However in a relationship I think this would only help to build understanding between the two unless one side willingly puts the usage of their dominant function to the side for a while (I do this when I put Fi to the side so I can understand the various aspects of a theory) but it would only be temporary. In my experience I have seen many times how Fi and Ti are similar but the different domains the Ji function uses leads to much butting heads. Though I admire INTPs (and all the NTs) and experience dealing with a manager at work who is probably an INTP (along with her coldness and sarcasm) I think if I was more mature and reasonable a person I would consider one. But as of 2012, it is not yet the case.
    I don't see any evidence for Ti "evaluations" (?) with Fe (the "embarassment" function that the brain has a hard time exciting), simulates Fi. Especially considering that the link between Ti and Fe is very weak as well (considering the Nardi's consciousness thread showed that Fe is least stimulated in the INTP brain regions).

    Even if it did simulate it, it would only create an appearance of the function and not really the function itself (Because it's Fe/Fi, you can't have one over the other without creating an imbalance in the overall order of functioning).

    I think Fi looks a lot like Ti in some users. I can agree with that.
    I'm a INFP - The sociopath

    I think I'm either a 4w5, 4w3, 6w5 or 9w1. Most possibly 4w5.

    Feeling FiNe

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by flameskull95 View Post
    I don't see any evidence for Ti "evaluations" (?) with Fe (the "embarassment" function that the brain has a hard time exciting), simulates Fi. Especially considering that the link between Ti and Fe is very weak as well (considering the Nardi's consciousness thread showed that Fe is least stimulated in the INTP brain regions).

    Even if it did simulate it, it would only create an appearance of the function and not really the function itself (Because it's Fe/Fi, you can't have one over the other without creating an imbalance in the overall order of functioning).

    I think Fi looks a lot like Ti in some users. I can agree with that.
    I didn't know exactly how to respond to this except for the revision of a previous statement. The method of simulation in this case is that the Ti analyzes the Fe function when they are both simultaneously activated. The strength of the link between them need not be big or small (that's irrelevant) as long as it exists, the Ti working with Fe can make a function which superficially at best resembles the workings of the Fi function. It's a Ji function infused with ethical/personal values from another source. It does not matter whether Fe "embarasses" the user or not. Now I will revise my previous statement because of a part I had forgotten. This simulated Fi at maximum can only be as strong as the Fe function for it requires Fe's value orientation as a key resource so the Fi will be weaker than the Fe BUT it will be more consciously accessible for the introverted user. I hope I have better explained myself.

    As for point two the word "simulated" implies that it isn't the original, actual function in use. I don't really know why you felt the need to tell me that.

  3. #123
    morose bourgeoisie
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    INTP women. I need someone to act as a foil for my pronounced touchy-feely ways...

  4. #124
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flameskull95 View Post
    But Fe is the INTP inferior? Wouldn't that mean their cognitive functions would have to invert to Te and Fe to balance out under stress? (Hence making Fi the least readily available function to the INTP --> what I meant by 'least of the least')
    I'm not following you. In brief, there are those who suggest Fe is least available (ie inferior) and those who say it is Fi.
    Logic, and the evidence, points to the former interpretation.

    I've always believed Jungian psychology to show that our 'shadow self' is the inverted function, and that is what we repress. The INTP prefers Fe, and represses Fi. Fi is like the repressed inferior function of the INTP, which works under the most stress.
    INTPs repress Fe. The function which is opposite the dominant function (for Ti that is Fe) is most repressed. (Hence inferior)

    LOL. dwelling deeper into it, I find your side of the argument stemmed :
    That isn't the thread I was referring to. I can't be bothered to find it right now, and I've probably derailed the thread enough. Let's agree to disagree.

    It actually makes sense that the brain uses the Ti region in the same place stimulation for Fi is given. That would suggest that Ti is being excited and Fi is being inhibited the most. Proving Fe>Fi by empirical evidence if you ask me.
    Crap, no. That's not what is implied at all. INFPs demonstrate a "halo" pattern of activation. Actually, they appear to activate regions the INTP fails to, and vice-versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    INTPs having stronger than Fi over Fe does sound intuitively correct to me. Ti evaluation of the Fe function would simulate the Fi function. Likewise the INFP's would simulate Ti very well. However in a relationship I think this would only help to build understanding between the two unless one side willingly puts the usage of their dominant function to the side for a while (I do this when I put Fi to the side so I can understand the various aspects of a theory) but it would only be temporary. In my experience I have seen many times how Fi and Ti are similar but the different domains the Ji function uses leads to much butting heads. Though I admire INTPs (and all the NTs) and experience dealing with a manager at work who is probably an INTP (along with her coldness and sarcasm) I think if I was more mature and reasonable a person I would consider one. But as of 2012, it is not yet the case.
    I like you. You should look me up when you become mature and reasonable. (But not too mature and reasonable).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #125
    morose bourgeoisie
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    ^^I thought you believed typology to be (mostly) BS* anyway? So why use cognitive functions? Why compound inaccuracy with more of same?

    *This means 'bullshit' to Americans. trying to be culturally sensitive!

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Moore View Post
    ^^I thought you believed typology to be (mostly) BS* anyway? So why use cognitive functions? Why compound inaccuracy with more of same?

    *This means 'bullshit' to Americans. trying to be culturally sensitive!
    Are you talking to me?

    I think arbitrary function orders are BS. I think typology is overly simplistic and can do more harm than good and is only marginally more scientific than astrology.
    I view talk of cognitive functions as a kind of short hand for an individual's preferences and values. In that sense, it's lexically useful (even if cognitive functions are not "real" in any other sense).
    I think individuals who prefer Fi are different from those who prefer Fe in ways that critically affect compatibility, at least, as far as I'm concerned.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #127
    Senior Member flameskull95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I'm not following you. In brief, there are those who suggest Fe is least available (ie inferior) and those who say it is Fi.
    Logic, and the evidence, points to the former interpretation.
    Okay, please show me it. Because every thread and even every website points to the INTP 'inferior'/'aspirational' function being Fe. ( http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/16Types/INTP.cfm ) . I think what you're stating is an alternative view/theory that may need to be given evidence to convince someone like me who doesn't know about it. Not that I'm disagreeing, I actually like knowing more about these things.

    This website http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/16Types/16Types.cfm does a rundown of the 16 type processes. The demon function or the 8th function is the one function 'we are unaware' of 'how to use'. "We are more likely to identify and claim those processes we are aware of, rather than those we are unaware of." which it also states.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    INTPs repress Fe. The function which is opposite the dominant function (for Ti that is Fe) is most repressed. (Hence inferior)
    Yes, they repress Fe. But as Nardi's consciousness states, because INTPs use that brain region to a much less degree. INTPs, don't in theory repress Fe because it's their 'least interesting function' and as this describes: http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-p...r-function.asp - "Development of this function tends to come in late midlife.". It's only logical that Fe is stronger. Say, in the future, an INTP would have more Fe>Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post

    That isn't the thread I was referring to. I can't be bothered to find it right now, and I've probably derailed the thread enough. Let's agree to disagree.
    Okay. But I want to know, if you can't be bothered I'm going to have to assume you have no clear evidence on your part. Rather a thread with no real basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post

    Crap, no. That's not what is implied at all. INFPs demonstrate a "halo" pattern of activation. Actually, they appear to activate regions the INTP fails to, and vice-versa.
    *

    Oh, I was speaking in analogies. I'm not a neurologist. iNtuitives use the 'Christmas tree pattern' yeah? I remember reading through it.

    I was implying that same thing you just wrote. I'm not saying that Ti and Fi activate in the same way. I'm saying the same brain region (like t5, etc that sort of 'brain region') is used for both Ti and Fi (which I saw was debated in that thread). Therefore, I would say INTPs activate that brain region for Ti, it would be almost impossible for INTPs to use it in a completely different manner of Fi. "almost impossible" making it the "demon" function, and the 'least of the least'. As I said, which is the exact same thing you've said after saying "crap, no". LOL. I'm sorry, looking back at what I'm replying to, I realized you're actually elaborating on the point I'm making.

    Though I think the conflict is that you view 'Fi' as stronger than 'Fe' for that reason, as you think 'Fi' is "inferior", because it is most suppressed. But may I suggest that the inferior function is "inferior" because it is in your reach. I think that's what Jungian psychology and MBTI theory implies as well. You are far more likely to stimulate the inferior regions that stimulate Fe in the INTP, than the Fi, which would mean having to change your primary Ti ways of your brain's processing. As Fi is the most suppressed in the same region, I could only deduce, (sorry if this inferior thinking has offended you by now, I just don't know any other way to communicate logic), that you would have the most difficult time rewiring your brain, to see things the Fi way. (hence, Fe>Fi; adding to that I wouldn't say Fi is strong in my dad's INTP persona either, whenever he tries to connect he mirrors my mum's Fe mode to connect with other people. I've noticed this in all the Ti dominants I have met as well.).

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I like you. You should look me up when you become mature and reasonable. (But not too mature and reasonable).
    *

    maybe the INTP-INFP thing is working out for the both of you. But as @Standuble said, I'm not INFP, so maybe our conflict @Salomé , is of another typing.
    I'm a INFP - The sociopath

    I think I'm either a 4w5, 4w3, 6w5 or 9w1. Most possibly 4w5.

    Feeling FiNe

  8. #128
    Senior Member flameskull95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I didn't know exactly how to respond to this except for the revision of a previous statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    As for point two the word "simulated" implies that it isn't the original, actual function in use. I don't really know why you felt the need to tell me that.
    Are you insulting me for no reason again? I had "felt" a need to say that to you, because this is an open thread where anyone has the right to comment and reply to. I discuss ideas, when you infer that I "felt" the need to say that, you practically say I don't think before I speak. And since this is what you were saying to me. You can't ridicule ideas you ridicule people. Please remember that.

    PS. - I don't follow 'stimulated' meaning 'not of original function use' I follow the dictionary meaning of it which is "creates an appearance of/imitates".

    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    The method of simulation in this case is that the Ti analyzes the Fe function when they are both simultaneously activated. The strength of the link between them need not be big or small (that's irrelevant) as long as it exists, the Ti working with Fe can make a function which superficially at best resembles the workings of the Fi function. It's a Ji function infused with ethical/personal values from another source. It does not matter whether Fe "embarasses" the user or not. Now I will revise my previous statement because of a part I had forgotten. This simulated Fi at maximum can only be as strong as the Fe function for it requires Fe's value orientation as a key resource so the Fi will be weaker than the Fe BUT it will be more consciously accessible for the introverted user. I hope I have better explained myself.
    Looking at what you said initially you claimed that this relationship would cause an INTP to simulate Fi, which would be 'making an appearance or imitating Fi' which is false. Fi can't be imitated. It's literally that you have 'one function or the other' or MBTI theory can be thrown in the bin, cause everyone can just imitate every function and there would be no need to understand other people's perspectives on things. But this I agree is my 'speculation'/opinion of my POV.

    Other than that, You can make an "appearance" of it, but than that would only go to how people judge other people by their behaviors upfront. I think Ti looks a lot like Fi, because they stipulate from the same brain regions and are both introverted. But just because the brain activates in those areas, doesn't underline the fact that a Ti-dominant can all of a sudden look at the world in a 'Fi' tint positively or more easily than looking at it in an Fe tint at least (which was my point originally; reread and maybe your mind might grasp my original post).

    Like you said "strength" is irrelevant, which is my point practically. As Salome suggests Fi>Fe in the INTP. I originally said INTPs have a 'better conscious use' of Fe. Therefore it is Salome's statment you're debunking. I haven't had my original statement debunked with evidence, yet (Which is 'INTPs have a better conscious use of Fe than Fi').

    I said nothing about "Fe embarrassing" the user. The 8th function is usually referred to as the "embarrassment" function as they have it in their reach (meaning it can be developed in a user), though it is not the primary mode or the secondary mode or the tertiary mode of perception.

    And you still haven't showed me evidence for this (which is what I was asking for before as well) for me to regard it as nothing but your own 'speculation' rather than evidence or theory: "the Ti working with Fe can make a function which superficially at best resembles the workings of the Fi function" and "It's a Ji function infused with ethical/personal values from another source" and "it requires Fe's value orientation as a key resource".

    So you're practically saying Ti-Fe (the inferior, least consciously accessible function; somehow creating a 'conscious link') would allow for an INTP to have Fi (the most unconscious function) more 'consciously accessible' (With Ji's ethics included !?). Remember we are speaking the camera lenses of perspective here, not letters. I've never read this anywhere, please link me the evidence.
    I'm a INFP - The sociopath

    I think I'm either a 4w5, 4w3, 6w5 or 9w1. Most possibly 4w5.

    Feeling FiNe

  9. #129
    Senior Member flameskull95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Moore View Post
    ^^I thought you believed typology to be (mostly) BS* anyway? So why use cognitive functions? Why compound inaccuracy with more of same?

    *This means 'bullshit' to Americans. trying to be culturally sensitive!
    I felt (emphasis on the 'felt') discussing this with @Standuble and @Salomé , was a situation where one person is trying to stick to the expression of his ideas he's collected through the basis of the theory, and the other has his/her own idiosyncrasies due to disbelief of that basis. Which resembles the ongoing Theist vs Atheist debate as well. In which case, I think there is no point of discussing it any further on a forum, rather than to just say "fuck this" to the whole discussion, straight up. Btw, @Standuble, this is exactly what ditching 'formal logic' does (as you tried to convince me toward in a previous thread), - it creates instability.
    I'm a INFP - The sociopath

    I think I'm either a 4w5, 4w3, 6w5 or 9w1. Most possibly 4w5.

    Feeling FiNe

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by flameskull95 View Post
    maybe the INTP-INFP thing is working out for the both of you. But as @Standuble said, I'm not INFP, so maybe our conflict @Salomé , is of another typing.
    What type does Standuble think you are, and why?

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