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  1. #31
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circle View Post
    Perceiving dominant types are probably more comfortable letting things go on in a half-way state. Unresolved and un-final. Judging dominant types like to conclude situations and are likely to form more clear definitions between people. There's something to be said for making a decision to one side or another. I feel better if matters are concluded. It lends clarity.
    Yeah, this is true. Unfortunately, the way it sometimes plays out for me is I put up with way too much for too long, and then finally I can't take it any more and it all builds up and I slam that door hard. Or at least close it very firmly. But sometimes that's for the best - it's just that I may have suffered damage leading up to it. I'd rather have my relationships with others clearly defined, that's for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I'm so sorry you've had to deal with this.

    My thought, as an NF and N dom, is to distance yourself absolutely as much as possible. Don't check out anything of hers online - in fact, maybe avoid facebook for a while - try to avoid her entirely at church, etc. Not in a hiding sort of way, but in the way that your mind-connections will begin diminishing. If there are things that remind you of her, try to make new connections for those things with other feelings and experiences. Let your mind fade her out. Then eventually you will be able to think of her emotionally much in the same way as you can think of an ex, with a sort of neutral distance, and less stirring of emotion despite an awareness of strong emotion in the past.
    Thanks! Yeah...I'm kind of doing most of that already, though I like your comments about changing thoughts/associations with this person. I do hate losing people even if it's for the best. And I think, although I haven't had an unhealthy obsession with her, I became somewhat obsessed with "if I just hang in there long enough, I can help her climb out of this destructive behaviour."

    At the moment I really kind of dislike her, but that's what I usually go through before I get to the desired neutral/not really caring feeling that I need to have toward someone in this situation. I'm definitely not an sx-first but I'm pretty sure I'm sp/sx and one of the things I relate to in sx is feeling closely bonded to people, sometimes to an over-invested and almost obsessive degree, even if it is purely a friendship and not at all romantic (I definitely only like men!). So I go through anger and grieving and those sorts of things when things go wrong. The feelings aren't overwhelming like it would be in a romantic situation but they are definitely there at least somewhat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I can understand feeling the need to keep an eye on these things because she’s a potential threat. I know a lot of times when I get the feedback to ‘stop paying attention’ because it’s causing undue grief, it’s hard to explain that I’d rather keep an eye on the potential threat and have an ongoing ‘risk assessment’ going on in my head than be surprised by something further down the road. I’ll realize the “threat” may be no greater than this person spreading stories or spinning some weird delusion to friends….but I can’t stand emo surprises and would prefer to know the moment it starts. (I think people who aren't as thrown off their game by surprises like this don't understand the need to keep one eye the status this person's craziness, but I don’t really consider that stalkerish.)




    Gah, I hate the delayed emo reactions! I get them too. [edit:] I’ll be understanding at first, but once I catch on to something being a consistent problem (and especially if the other person takes no responsibility for the grief it causes or amount of energy it sucks out of me)- then the weight of all the prior offenses catches up to me and I feel it with every new incident.

    It sounds like you’ve done every possible sort of ‘reasoning’ with this person, and she doesn’t respond to any of it- and I know that a lot of times I can get sucked into thinking “well maybe this is simple and straightforward enough that the person will be open to hearing it”- but no matter how sane your words are, it’s all just *attention* to her and if you give her ANY *attention* it’ll just encourage her to keep throwing her craziness at you. I think you already know this, I’m just throwing it out as a reminder. As long as she doesn’t pose any physical threat, no matter how blatantly annoying or passive-aggressively antagonistic she gets, she WILL get sick of doing it eventually if it doesn’t get her the slightest bit of attention. It’s truly stunning how people like that become absolute masters at figuring out what to say or do to make others lash out or feel the need to say something in return/defend themselves- but it’ll pass eventually if there’s no return on her efforts.
    Yep, I relate to a lot of this! (as usual!). I do think I need to keep a bit of an eye on her but not in a way that I allow myself to be obsessive about. I totally agree about "the weight of all the prior offenses/incidents" catching up, too. And sometimes it only hits me full force after I've extricated myself. I think even when I was giving her the "our friendship is OVER" speech, a little part of me thought that way down the line, maybe years down the line, we might have a friendship if she could be healthy - because there are things I like and find interesting about her, and I sure invested a lot. But now I have more of the clarity that comes with stepping back, and honestly I am 99% sure I never want her in my life in any major way again. I think she is likely to have very unhealthy attachment issues and so on for her whole life, and nothing in our interactions ever indicated to me that there was a chance of her being able to have a normal non-obsessive friendship with me.

    At the moment a bit of time has elapsed but not a huge amount. So I think she is still obsessed, but I am not giving any indication of being interested in her or responding to anything she does. I think if I stand firm on that - which is a lot easier for me now - it will help a lot. Although, given that I have an internet presence that I can't really block her from entirely, some degree of obsession may continue. I want to say "maybe she'll move on to someone else" but I really feel for that hypothetical person!! It would be nice if someone of my efforts paid off and she ended up semi-normal...but it's not my problem now and I shouldn't hold my breath.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circle View Post
    The best manipulators probably don't even realize they're doing it. It can be based on some very primitive and fundamental emotional need that they fail to recognize. That's part of what makes it so complicated. In a sense, they don't even know they're manipulating. To me that's why you have to let go of what other people feel, believe, think, and do and focus on how you feel being in relationship with them. If you feel bad being in a relationship / friendship with them, that is sufficient reason to let go of them. You don't have to figure out why.
    This is extremely astute.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Yes, I am pretty sure you're right about idolizing me. It is clear that she views me/my friends as having some sort of perfect, wonderful life (she told me so in almost those words) and since she has these BPD sort of tendencies, she tries to take on my personality and escape her personal hell by trying to obtain my "wonderful, perfect" life. The person she imitated/stalked before also seemed very together and happy (I'm fairly together and happy, but I seem more so than I actually am, haha!). But a bit of hero worship is one thing, creepy stalkerishness is another.

    Your experience is interesting. Although I wish she would have distanced herself of her own accord... I had managed to push her away a bit and gain some distance, but not nearly enough. Trying to find a balance with this person proved impossible, hence I had to cut the ties brutally (telling her the friendship was over, FB blocking etc.) I think that those with BPD or tendencies can be very interesting and creative people, which this girl shows signs of being. I know for sure they're very sensitive. Unfortunatley it is all messed up...
    Could she have been trying to model herself after you, as she did not have a healthy model before you? At any rate, it sounds very scary (and annoying).

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I'm so sorry you've had to deal with this.

    My thought, as an NF and N dom, is to distance yourself absolutely as much as possible. Don't check out anything of hers online - in fact, maybe avoid facebook for a while - try to avoid her entirely at church, etc. Not in a hiding sort of way, but in the way that your mind-connections will begin diminishing. If there are things that remind you of her, try to make new connections for those things with other feelings and experiences. If you do encounter her, try to immediately think of other things and dampen your emotional response. Let your mind loosen ties to her and fade her out. Then eventually you will be able to think of her emotionally much in the same way as you can think of an ex, with a sort of neutral distance, and less stirring of emotion despite an awareness of strong emotion in the past.
    ^^This would be my response as well. If on th off chance the other girl is an NFP (I suspect many borderline folks are), establishing this sort of distance will allow her to accomplish the same-focus less on you and more on what is directly in front of her and hopefully loose her fixation.

  3. #33
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Could she have been trying to model herself after you, as she did not have a healthy model before you? At any rate, it sounds very scary (and annoying).


    ^^This would be my response as well. If on th off chance the other girl is an NFP (I suspect many borderline folks are), establishing this sort of distance will allow her to accomplish the same-focus less on you and more on what is directly in front of her and hopefully loose her fixation.
    Definitely trying to model herself after me. To a fault... Other people also noticed that not only did all my interests become all her interests, but she even started dressing more like me, etc. She wants to study what I studied at uni, and so on and so forth. And I know for a fact that a very similar thing took place with the woman she obsessed over before me.

    People have suggested that she's got a lesbian crush on me. I think there may be an element of that, but it's more unhealthy obsession/wanting to BE me, overall. She treated me sort of like I was - at one and the same time - best friend/mom/big sister/role model/crush. She certainly doesn't have good or strong adult role models in her family so she gloms onto people like this. Her mother is obviously severely depressed - their relationship is cold, hostile and almost non-existent - and the father just can't cope. I actually suspect very much that there has been abuse in that family. Even from something the father said to me once about "something" having happened in their family. If she hasn't been abused herself (and she would fit the profile in a lot of ways) I suspect the mother may have been abused in childhood and has passed on the screwed-upness to her daughter, or something of that nature. I don't have evidence to suggest there is abuse taking place in the immediate family currently - I hope to God not.

    And yes - I am pretty certain she's xNFP. It fits very well. I am not sure if she'd be a reserved/shy ENFP or an outgoing INFP. (Btw, I told her about MBTi, and also that she seemed INFP to me...and at that juncture she decided she was an INFJ. Very obviously because I am one. I don't think it fits so well. She seems very Ne/Fi to me.) And a type 4, for sure, almost stereotypically so.

    She has often ranted about how she's an introvert and so people shouldn't pressure her, put expectations on her, blah blah blah. One of my good friends who also knows her told me that this girl had told her a bit about her new job. She'd said her boss had told her she needs to "change her personality" (it's a customer service position. Bad sign btw, I'd say...I fully expect her to lose a job because of her bad attitude.) Then she'd said "but they don't understand! I'm an introvert! They just don't understand!" Got news for ya, kid...I'm an introvert too and I have performed very successfully in customer service positions and the like. She is using excuses like "I'm an introvert" as an excuse for bad behaviour - I can totally see her scowling at customers and being rude to them.

    On the bright side, it is good for her to have a job and it would be nice if she could hold on to it. And she is busy with school and such so I don't think she has as much time for obsession. A job (and it's her first real one) can help a lot with developing responsibility and so on, so I hope it helps. (partly for her sake, and partly so that she stops obsessing about me, permanently.)
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  4. #34
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    Do more than passively avoid her. Confront her. Tell her you don't want her around. Be direct.

    I also have read multiple threads you've posted about this girl and I believe her to be a closeted lesbian or bisexual, and this is the only way she feels she can express those feelings without actually being sexual or openly gay. Her mind won't allow her to repress it. That's what I think.

  5. #35
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    Oh she's potentially NFP. ExFPs are notorious stalkers.

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    Does idiots making threads about you count?

  7. #37
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Yeah, I suppose it's only right to admit that I have a few stalkerish tendencies myself, if that wasn't already obvious
    Do you make yourself sick?
    Honestly, I can't understand what you're obsessing about. Unless she has threatened your personal safety she isn't "stalking" you. If you don't want private stuff read, don't post it on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #38
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Do more than passively avoid her. Confront her. Tell her you don't want her around. Be direct.

    I also have read multiple threads you've posted about this girl and I believe her to be a closeted lesbian or bisexual, and this is the only way she feels she can express those feelings without actually being sexual or openly gay. Her mind won't allow her to repress it. That's what I think.
    You may be right... I think it's more immature obsession but I don't know. It's really not that relevant to me any more. Whether it's BPD-type behaviour or a sexuality issue, the behaviour is totally crazy.

    She did tell me indirectly some time ago that in a therapy session, she'd told the therapist about me and the therapist had asked if she had sexual feelings for me. She'd thought this was a weird/disturbing thing for the therapist to ask her. (It seemed like a new thought to her, but it certainly wasn't to me!). But she isn't necessarily aware of all her feelings. Who knows. It's not my problem, thankfully.

    I don't intend to confront her any more at the moment. She's already had the speech about me not wanting her around and her no longer being welcome in my life. (Oh, and I've used the words "creepy" and "stalker" to her directly, so she knows what it's like to me.) I think giving her any more attention of any kind is a really bad idea.
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  9. #39
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Do you make yourself sick?
    Honestly, I can't understand what you're obsessing about. Unless she has threatened your personal safety she isn't "stalking" you. If you don't want private stuff read, don't post it on the internet.
    What do you mean, "do I make myself sick"? If I'm under a lot of stress, yes, that can happen.

    I've deliberately said "stalker-ish" rather than "she is a stalker" (for the most part!). I'm perfectly fine with most people reading the info I put on the internet - in fact, I want them to read it - ie. my blog isn't deeply personal, it's about my cultural interests. I'm less ok with indications that someone is trying to imitate me in every way possible, or that they are leaving little passive-aggressive indications around on the internet, especially when their behaviour has been that of a stalker, in the past.

    YOur response suggests you've never had to deal with such a dynamic. I'm not sure if you understand the nature of boundary violations - have you had people follow you, come into your building and hang around uninvited when you weren't there (and then tell you about it), grab hold of you and not let go so that you had to physically wrench yourself away, etc? If you haven't had this type of experience you may not understand that I'm dealing with the aftermath of this. It was bad enough that I once screamed at her "leave me alone" in public (because she would'n't stop following me when I told her to go away), and I was actually afraid that I was going to physically strike out at her because the urge to defend myself was so strong. It felt like an attack, a few times.

    EDIT: Ok, I understand - you think that because I've admitted to having some obsessive tendencies, my behaviour is sickening to others. I have never had anyone tell me that I am a clingy stalker, so I'm not too worried - my occasional tendency to obsess over people only damages myself. In this dynamic, multiple people (10? 20?) told me that her behaviour around me (and the previous woman) was stalker-like. Some people used words like "stalker" and "she should be medicated" within minutes of meeting her. What I mainly blame myself for is not picking up on that sort of thing early enough with her, or putting up with too much of it.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    What do you mean, "do I make myself sick"? If I'm under a lot of stress, yes, that can happen.
    You said you had stalkerish tendencies and that stalkers make you sick. I'm struggling to understand what looks like overreaction, but I don't know all the details of your interaction.
    People imitate me all the time. I find it amusing.

    YOur response suggests you've never had to deal with such a dynamic. I'm not sure if you understand the nature of boundary violations - have you had people follow you, come into your building and hang around uninvited when you weren't there (and then tell you about it), grab hold of you and not let go so that you had to physically wrench yourself away, etc? If you haven't had this type of experience you may not understand that I'm dealing with the aftermath of this.
    Yes, I've been stalked. Threatened. Hacked. Had stuff stolen, including my identity. Malicious stalking can be serious. Someone crushing on you a bit inappropriately? Nothing to work up a sweat about, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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