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Thread: Cynical INFP's

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joehobo View Post
    [...]I was very empathetic throughout most of my teenager years. At some point I got tired of it and felt like it was easier to just cut through what I saw as side issues and go straight to what I saw as the root issue. This really didn't rub people the right way. I figure doing that is probably the same as you explained here? In your own experience, did you happen to take this kind of step about things also? Or was it never so much of an issue for you?

    [...]

    Perhaps it is impatience on my part, but even when I do have being empathetic down, I find myself frustrated with the person when the issue continues to arrive and they fail to find a solution for themselves, and aren't ready to accept a suggestion either. I can generally just ignore it and put it on the back burner but when it comes to people close to me it can sometimes require a need for more tangible results, them needing to sort out the problem. Would you suggest that patience is needed here and that given enough time if I mirror my disagreement carefully they may become more open to a suggestion? Or would you think this would call for another method around things?
    I think the material on boundaries will provide some answers here. For example, boundaries allow you to cordon off and isolate unproductive or problem areas while continuing to interact with people in other areas that are more productive. Remember the Pareto principle in the “Time management” link in the post on Te skills; it can be applied to relationships and personal interactions as well. Instead of frustrating yourself and irritating family and friends trying to solve the problems of the people around you, it’s more productive to cordon off areas of non-communication while still enjoying the relationship as a whole. (See my example of the family and their toxic attitudes about food.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Joehobo View Post
    After reading that link when you posted it, I had it churning in the background throughout the night at a party. I was spending alot of time being involved in anti social activities like emailing (I was discussing something which was important and involving upcoming decisions regarding family life.) because I had no interest or any real knowledge of the people around me. So depending on how I look at it, I was following well with Quadrant II. But given the anti social nature I was also disregarding that haha. :P
    Maybe pointing out was a little pointless but oh well. I felt like I had created a contradiction.
    Lol. I think you’re robbing Peter to pay Paul in that example. Multi-tasking isn't a good productivity practice if it results in your doing an important task poorly (your social activity, in this case). Presumably you want to encourage both types of interactions (face-to-face social relations and interactions with associates via email). So allot separate time slots for each of them, and give them your full attention during their allotted time.

    If you don’t have time for both, then use Time management principles and the Pareto principle to decide which one deserves your limited time and then, again, give it your full attention during its allotted time.

  2. #72
    Junior Member Chickadee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joehobo View Post
    Hey, welcome to the forum! I just noticed you are new here haha. have you been settling in here well?
    So in highschool you where seen as cynical (perhaps to a small a extent actually where.) Any idea why people where seeing this? Haha, I would like to think I am blossoming into a mature adult as well.
    Giving people the benefit of the doubt, you know that is something I heard alot of earlier this year, is this something you've always found yourself doing? From what I'm reading, it seems a little safe to say you learnt pretty quickly how to assert yourself?
    Putting too much trust into a person, and not being able to accept that they broke that trust. Being able to move on from that is something I've only just be learning. I envy you slightly. :P
    Thank you for the warm welcome I am definitely settling in very nicely so far!

    In high school I was bullied a LOT. I had very few friends, and maybe one or two of those friends I could actually trust not to stab me in the back or talk about me to other people. I ended up shutting everyone out and keeping to myself, which was very heartbreaking and lonely. My parents thought I had clinical depression, but really - my life was just pretty shitty at school lol. I had -very- little trust in people in high school because it was thrown in my face all the time, and logically trust couldn't be given. Relationship breakups hit me hard, and I think it was that low self esteem I already had which amplified it.

    Once I was in college, people grew up. I could be myself (still a little bit of a loner) but I had friends I could relate to and hang out with and there was very little drama. I started becoming choosy in the person I was most intimate with, because I was looking for someone I could eventually marry (not just a boyfriend). Unfortunately I left a lot of broken hearts behind on my quest for the perfect relationship (sounding familiar with infp now? lol) but looking back, I'm glad I did, it served me well. My goal was to learn from each relationship and look for something better the next time around, and I believe it has been working. I give the benefit of the doubt until I am logically sure that things will not change and I am seeing the person for the way that they are and I don't think I would be compatible. As for clinical depression, I saw something like 4 doctors (the last of which did diagnose it after pressure from my parents) and then finally a psychologist who was able to explain to my parents that my emotions had both highs and lows, but because I am incredibly empathetic and feel things so deeply, it comes across strongly, but it is not depression - thank goodness :P I never thought I had it, so it was nice to shut the book on that. But why I bring all that up, (sorry this is getting so long, I tend to ramble), is because I am so empathetic of others that I would like to be given a high level of trust and the benefit of the doubt, so likewise I am very compassionate of other people and give them all my faith and trust until they betray it. And then in my mind, they betrayed it because I gave it to them in the first place. That is just who they are, and my trust is not something selective that can be worn out by people (unless in a very bad environment, like high school was) - I just logically keep a tally, and once trust is betrayed I know better than to allow that amount of trust again for that individual unless they have proven to me that they deserve it.

    TL;DR - You can control your own feelings, but you can't control what other people do. The kind thing is do treat others how you would like to be treated, and if they throw it in your face, understand that they are humans that make mistakes and realize it was not a violation of your inner self, because that inner self is given freely and indiscriminately - you didn't make a mistake in trusting them, they made the mistake of losing your trust.

    I hope this makes sense?

  3. #73
    Senior Member Joehobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I think the material on boundaries will provide some answers here. For example, boundaries allow you to cordon off and isolate unproductive or problem areas while continuing to interact with people in other areas that are more productive. Remember the Pareto principle in the “Time management” link in the post on Te skills; it can be applied to relationships and personal interactions as well. Instead of frustrating yourself and irritating family and friends trying to solve the problems of the people around you, it’s more productive to cordon off areas of non-communication while still enjoying the relationship as a whole. (See my example of the family and their toxic attitudes about food.)
    I think you may be right, I'm still churning through this info. Maximizing productivity would mean I cover the important stuff in that 20%. Pareto principle will dictate that will give the largest portion of results, it's interesting that you can apply this to relationships and personal interactions hey! Fair enough, I should just as you mentioned in previous posts putting it on the back burner and keep dealing with the important things.

    Lol. I think you’re robbing Peter to pay Paul in that example. Multi-tasking isn't a good productivity practice if it results in your doing an important task poorly (your social activity, in this case). Presumably you want to encourage both types of interactions (face-to-face social relations and interactions with associates via email). So allot separate time slots for each of them, and give them your full attention during their allotted time.

    If you don’t have time for both, then use Time management principles and the Pareto principle to decide which one deserves your limited time and then, again, give it your full attention during its allotted time.
    Haha.. yeah it seems I was.. Wasn't very good of me to do that. At the time I felt like it was important because of the emotion attached to it. But really it wasn't and it could have waited. I see what you mean by giving it an allotted time. Everything has its time and place. I should of focused on the party. I think I payed for it though because my phone decided to die on my as of a result haha. Lesson learnt!

  4. #74
    Senior Member Joehobo's Avatar
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    @Chickadee

    Don't worry, you're making sense. :P

    Having to go through that, I can see how that would of affected your image and then having people to perceive you like that. It's all like a double whammy isn't it? You got yourself feeling dejected and then having people see you that way, not making you feel any better about your situation. It's interesting how you just got up on your feet though, no cynicism of people for it, just carrying on. Having your trust thrown around like that.. that never actually made you hesitate about trusting people in future?

    College. The glory years? haha. Yes it sounds very much like the INFP's on this thread. We seem to always want to find something that meets our ideal image of things, perhaps to a fault. Can't say I did the trial and error thing though, but I certainly get told I'm way too picky when it comes to the opposite sex. Unfortunately it works well for me and I don't think I'll really change that haha. I've only had one serious relationship, and it worked out very well for me. Although it ended, she is still my closest confidant. Did you have trouble in relationships when it came to idealisation? Did you ever idealise your partners, and have a image you built up just to have it shattered? Okay its sounding a little dramatic, going off a tangent here.

    So throughout all that you never lost your empathy, trust and confidence in people in your future?

  5. #75
    Junior Member Chickadee's Avatar
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    I do idealize my partners in the beginning and it does cause stress later on. Mainly because I would have wished to see the "deal-breaker" and not go through all of the heartache, mainly drama with my family and heartbreak on their end for me to "suddenly" call it quits. On the other hand I have a lot of good memories and I learned a great deal from the bad relationships, so I can't say I regret them or blame my idealism. In my current relationship I got in a little bit of a fight because he is a realist and I was outspokenly idealizing him. He cut me short right there and tried to explain to me why I was wrong, which hurt my feelings. Since then, I think we understand each other better. For him it was a fear of me seeing someone he is not, stringing him along, then realizing I don't love him. I think he was right to be worried considering my behavior lol but maybe a little misguided on what I consider to be important lol

    I have never lost my empathy for others, but I can be cold in some ways. I practice tough love but I am extremely sensitive to others' feelings. I've never lost it because I look at people as individuals in the sense of evil, and I look at mankind in the sense of good. I believe people are good, even the "bad" ones who have something mentally wrong and are evil to others (in such cases of dangerous children who have something psychologically wrong) - I believe bad people are people who are capable of making a decision to do the wrong thing and have a sense of right and wrong, but choose wrong. Even when someone hurts me, I try to see it from their perspective (other than in high school, where I was a bit overwhelmed). I had someone I was dating either cheating on me, or using me as someone to cheat on with their partner when I did not realize (even though it was only one date) - as soon as I realized, I could not trust this person anymore. Even though he begged and pleaded with me, I turned a cold shoulder to him and cut him completely out. And in my opinion, even that is kindness, because it would be horrible for both of us to be in a relationship where one person cheated on the other. I think the most unkind thing I tend to do is make decisions for people I am close with by completely cutting them out without their say. In that I could use some work to compromise with people, but it's hard. Anyway, he didn't take away my empathy/trust in people - he was just a man who was not mature enough for a committed relationship, and I realize there is nothing I or anyone else but he could do about it.

  6. #76
    Junior Member Turquoise Bones's Avatar
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    I think Charlie Brooker is a great example of a cynical INFP. Probably the reason I think he's one of the funniest people on TV!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwv2yHN1Yac

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    Senior Member Joehobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    On the subject of personal boundaries...

    In my post on mirroring, I said:



    However, that’s only half the story. The other half of the story is the work of reflecting the other person’s main points back to them to show that you’ve listened and comprehended. To quote: “Engage in empathic listening by rephrasing the content (to show that you understood, i.e., the logical left-brain side) and reflecting the feelings (to show your empathy and grasp of the situation, i.e., the emotional right-brain side).”

    This concept of the “reflection of main points” becomes the marker that determines whether a given interaction is productive or unproductive, and thus how low or high you need to set your personal boundaries while dealing with that person or subject.

    To spell it out in more detail: .....
    This is slightly annoying, I didn't even see your post on boundaries till now. I assumed that when you mentioned it in your previous post that it was upcoming. My bad. This really fills in major points on the mirroring alright. Stumbling along this is like finding a little golden nugget on the riverbed haha. Gave me enough time to reflect on the previous post and now this adding ontop. Did you have most trouble with high boundary interactions in your own development? Low boundary ones seem to come a little more naturally with particular types of people. Slipping into high bound is most disheartening though. Just pointing out when an interactions change between people like that.

    In regards to agenda's, you mentioned that it becomes easier to spot when mirroring is returned. I'm really noticing this now, and seeing how alot of people who are close to me who would complain about a lack of empathy from me really aren't all that empathetic themselves. And not only that, the main reason why the perceived a lack of empathy was because I wouldn't react with the same enthusiasm over trivial things like "I'm excited because I have the day off tomorrow". Did you ever come across this? Perhaps not in particular this, but becoming frustrated with peoples responses? Perhaps this could be because I have yet to grasp boundaries better?

    In the above example, you can continue to love and interact with your family while cordoning off certain specific areas of your (or their) life and simply refusing to engage with them in those areas. Just pay attention to whether or not there is mutual mirroring in those areas, and then set your personal boundaries accordingly.
    I can see where this really kicks in haha. Isolate problem areas, and resolve when opportunity arrives. Got it.


    To sum up: Mirroring and use of personal boundaries isn’t supposed to be a definition of Fe; instead, as I said in my earlier post on mirroring, it’s an Fe-based system that has been externalized and formalized for use by anyone: It helps people to be outward-directed and interested in the lives of others but simultaneously practicing boundaries to protect autonomy and separate the productive relationships from the unproductive ones. (Refer back to the Pareto principle in the “Time management” link in the post on Te skills; it can be applied to relationships and personal interactions as well.)

    That should be it for the long posts. I’ll follow up with a few notes on other Fe-based systems (networking, courtesies, small talk, etc.), but it should mostly be links to old posts.
    I think I certainly need to give this a couple of reads and time for reflections. Perhaps even writing out how alot of it all relates with my current interactions. I guess would help me absorb this all better rather than nit pick parts. What do you think? The links to your old posts are just as rich! All is good. I'm trying to just effectively sift through the information and blend it into my small cranium. haha

  8. #78
    Senior Member Joehobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickadee View Post
    I do idealize my partners in the beginning and it does cause stress later on. Mainly because I would have wished to see the "deal-breaker" and not go through all of the heartache, mainly drama with my family and heartbreak on their end for me to "suddenly" call it quits. On the other hand I have a lot of good memories and I learned a great deal from the bad relationships, so I can't say I regret them or blame my idealism. In my current relationship I got in a little bit of a fight because he is a realist and I was outspokenly idealizing him. He cut me short right there and tried to explain to me why I was wrong, which hurt my feelings. Since then, I think we understand each other better. For him it was a fear of me seeing someone he is not, stringing him along, then realizing I don't love him. I think he was right to be worried considering my behavior lol but maybe a little misguided on what I consider to be important lol
    Yeah, an unfortunate consequence when our loved ones have to see us in pain. That is always good if you can take the good from the bad, I've always tried to strive for this myself, as you mention it seems to work doesn't it? I hope that in your current relationship your idealism proves to be something that keeps you going, and less so a source of conflict. It certainly has its pro's when it isn't being unreasonable! haha. He has a fair point, no one really feels comfortable with being seen more than what they are. It puts pressure on them and all that jazz. Perhaps yeah lol.

    I have never lost my empathy for others, but I can be cold in some ways. I practice tough love but I am extremely sensitive to others' feelings. I've never lost it because I look at people as individuals in the sense of evil, and I look at mankind in the sense of good. I believe people are good, even the "bad" ones who have something mentally wrong and are evil to others (in such cases of dangerous children who have something psychologically wrong) - I believe bad people are people who are capable of making a decision to do the wrong thing and have a sense of right and wrong, but choose wrong. Even when someone hurts me, I try to see it from their perspective (other than in high school, where I was a bit overwhelmed). I had someone I was dating either cheating on me, or using me as someone to cheat on with their partner when I did not realize (even though it was only one date) - as soon as I realized, I could not trust this person anymore. Even though he begged and pleaded with me, I turned a cold shoulder to him and cut him completely out. And in my opinion, even that is kindness, because it would be horrible for both of us to be in a relationship where one person cheated on the other. I think the most unkind thing I tend to do is make decisions for people I am close with by completely cutting them out without their say. In that I could use some work to compromise with people, but it's hard. Anyway, he didn't take away my empathy/trust in people - he was just a man who was not mature enough for a committed relationship, and I realize there is nothing I or anyone else but he could do about it.
    Tough love huh? How would that exactly manifest itself in your behavior? Cold is cold, tough love is just chewy haha. Congratulations, with the good vs evil you match up to the stereotype of INFP. :P I really agree with that philosophy. Although man does the most horrific things, people would not be so traumatised by such actions if they did not have some inherent goodness in them, would you agree? Wow, you seem to have reacted well to cheating and such. I've seen that actually break people. Perhaps in circumstances like that people don't necessarily deserve your trust, but perhaps with more long term and serious things which just become tiresome.. some compromise would be good? Atleast that is my own view on the matter.

  9. #79
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Cynicism in INFPs is more of the rule than the exception, just saying :P

    Not that they're always cynical, but Fi+Si seems like some double whammy of their universe always weighing down on their shoulders..... it's quite a confusing thing to witness.

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    Senior Member Joehobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turquoise Bones View Post
    I think Charlie Brooker is a great example of a cynical INFP. Probably the reason I think he's one of the funniest people on TV!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwv2yHN1Yac
    I've never seen this man or such a documentary. I tend to love British humour though that is for sure.

    After watching it, I'm in agreeance, that was damn entertaining haha! He'd make a fine cynical INFP alright.
    Perhaps more people could take a little wisdom from that episode. Thanks for the good share.

    Given your type, care to share any cynical stories?

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