[INFP] Cynical INFP's

[Cellmold]

I cant remember a time when I WASN'T cynical.

 

[Joehobo]

I cant remember a time when I WASN'T cynical.

Does nothing ever live up to your expectations? Bitter disappointments from the past, yes?

 

[Eugene Watson VIII]

not all the time, maybe more so during teh Te phases

 

[Joehobo]

not all the time, maybe more so during teh Te phases

Oh dem Te phases! This is a first I'm seeing though, care to elaborate on what you mean with your Te phases?

 

[Eugene Watson VIII]

Yeah, sometimes I have no faith in people because it feels like they're taking a stance against my morals and sometimes even me. But when I utilize Te mainly, it becomes more like 'what a dumbass, make me a minute late for the movies by waiting in front of me for the car park ahead of me when there's another just a few metres away'. I think the cynicism that comes from Te is a lot more aggressive and obvious than from Fi...if that makes sense.

I think more things are capable of provoking Te than Fi.

EDIT: link < 'the grip' I saw just before the 'stress at work' part. Actually a good read, would have to buy it

 

[Joehobo]

Haha, I know what you mean with Te aggression, I've read somewhere of it being described as "the grip" where our inferior functions manifest itself in an unhealthy way. However it is also to my understanding that it can also be developed in a positive manner as well. So yeah, certainly making sense! I find my recent Te outbreaks have just been utterly destructive. Drives to become narrow and enforcing of what I believe is morally correct on those close to me, or atleast, the desire to do so.
All the Fi accommodation, respect and openness just goes right out the window when Te hogs that energy.

 

[Cellmold]

Does nothing ever live up to your expectations? Bitter disappointments from the past, yes?

Well actually im not an INFP and although there is something of that in there, im more...cynical alongside cheerful. Im cynical over what I think it is a good idea to be cynical over and I judge for myself when it is best to apply that cynicism.

In all honesty ive never understood why most people live cynicism as if it is a lifestyle....cant you turn it on and off as and where applicable? Or is it that most people are not like me and they need cynicism to happen upon them from negative experiences?

Of course it might just be that I acknowledge cynicism towards certain things which I feel it is intelligent to be wary of.

 

[Joehobo]

I think the context of this may have been misunderstood, I was speaking in the form of the general interpretation of a cynic.
You sounds more like the true nature of being a cynic, or reasoning more so.
This was more related to reinforcing past experiences of disappointment which have led to a developing mindset which borders pessimism. People not living upto expectations (which are considered unreasonable or unrealistic to begin with.) In specific to INFP, it relates to the Fi - Si. However everyone can experience this to an extent but it does seem very habitual in NF's.

Does alot of the posters experience resonate with you? If so then you certainly fit the context and I'm just misunderstanding you.

I didn't understand either why, but I am beginning to now because of my own experiences. It's more of a habit or way of dealing things being reinforced, its not so simple to just switch off. You actively have to work through it. Applying cynicism in the sense of placing it only where it is applicable is more on the lines of reasoning or skepticism I think, or the true nature of a cynic in the greek philosophy.

 

[RDF]

Greetings. This is my first thread, yay me. I half wish it was on something a little more positive but oh well.
Feel free to share your own experiences here on this, do you as an INFP experience a disturbing amount of cynicism in your life - either from within yourself, or other people in their views on you?
Please give reasons as to the whys, what and hows. I'm curious to see how people deal with this if it is present within your life and how it manifests itself in your day to day living especially in regards to interpersonal relationships.

Looking forward to see your replies, any input would be nice especially perspectives from types other than the INFP type and how they see them.

Sorry if there is an old thread covering this, I am new here still and didn't want to revive any old ones.

Sorry, I’m just kind of jumping in here and responding to the OP and the subject in general. But I did skim most of the thread. Anyway, on a general note:

Presumably, cynicism in INFPs comes from having internal models in our head of how people are supposed to behave (our “ideals”). When people don’t behave according to our internal models, we feel disillusioned. Since our internal models are always a little behind the curve (they reflect past experiences and beliefs rather than predicting the future), we can end up being disillusioned pretty frequently and end up cynical about life as a whole.

The correct answer is that we’re supposed to be using our Ne to take in info about the outside world and update our internal models so that our internal models are current with the way the world is. Without that step, our internal models can get increasingly out of step with the real world. [This line of thought is explained at the following website:] http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFP_per.html

So the resulting conclusion would be that an INFP who is frequently disillusioned or cynical probably isn’t using his/her Ne enough. Our Fi and our Ne should be working together, side-by-side: Our Fi constructs internal models to reflect the outside world (in order to find meaning and coherency in the world), while our Ne constantly does reality checks on the models and updates the internal models to incorporate in them new info about real-world conditions.

 

[Joehobo]

Sorry, I’m just kind of jumping in here and responding to the OP and the subject in general. But I did skim most of the thread. Anyway, on a general note:

Presumably, cynicism in INFPs comes from having internal models in our head of how people are supposed to behave (our “ideals”). When people don’t behave according to our internal models, we feel disillusioned. Since our internal models are always a little behind the curve (they reflect past experiences and beliefs rather than predicting the future), we can end up being disillusioned pretty frequently and end up cynical about life as a whole.

The correct answer is that we’re supposed to be using our Ne to take in info about the outside world and update our internal models so that our internal models are current with the way the world is. Without that step, our internal models can get increasingly out of step with the real world. [This line of thought is explained at the following website:] http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFP_per.html

So the resulting conclusion would be that an INFP who is frequently disillusioned or cynical probably isn’t using his/her Ne enough. Our Fi and our Ne should be working together, side-by-side: Our Fi constructs internal models to reflect the outside world (in order to find meaning and coherency in the world), while our Ne constantly does reality checks on the models and updates the internal models to incorporate in them new info about real-world conditions.

Your input is more than welcome.

I can defiantly see how Fi behaves in that manner, that link explains how the lack of Ne contributes to this really well! I can see how this ties in with the V&A exercise you shared previously by applying the Fi and Ne to it. It is hard to balance out against Si though, takes alot of active reminders. If auto pilot goes on Si is doing most of the spoon feeding for Fi I can imagine.

I wonder how this works with the NFJ's though.

 

[RDF]

Your input is more than welcome.

I can defiantly see how Fi behaves in that manner, that link explains how the lack of Ne contributes to this really well! I can see how this ties in with the V&A exercise you shared previously by applying the Fi and Ne to it.

Thanks, Joe. I appreciate your feedback. Good thread by the way.

It is hard to balance out against Si though, takes alot of active reminders. If auto pilot goes on Si is doing most of the spoon feeding for Fi I can imagine.

I’m not sure Si has much to do with the problem...

In any case, if you’re asking about how to use your Ne better, I think it’s just a question of observing people better. The link to PersonalityPage.com that I provided in my last post includes some exercises for INFPs who want to improve their Ne.

For example, instead of using your Fi to build one universal "internal model" for human behavior and expecting all humans to follow it (and becoming disillusioned when they don't), you should use your Ne to observe individual humans and see what they are good at: Person 1 is good at art, Person 2 is chatty, Person 3 is highly competitive, etc. And then value those people individually based on their particular strengths...

I wonder how this works with the NFJ's though.

To recap how this works for INFPs:

In the case of INFPs, disillusionment arises when the Dominant chugs along by itself and isn’t reigned in or moderated by the Auxiliary. In other words, Fi-Dom builds internal models or “ideals” that are increasingly out-of-whack with reality, because they haven’t been subject to reality checks and revision by Ne.

As for NFJs:

In the case of INFJs, similar problems arise with the Dominant chugs along by itself and isn’t reigned in or moderated by the Auxiliary. In other words, Ni-Dom collects up data and factoids and builds matrices with them, but the matrices are increasingly out-of-whack with reality, because they haven’t been subject to reality checks and revision by Fe.

I won’t try to describe the result myself. But you can check the INFJ page at PersonalityPage.com for descriptions of INFJs who aren’t using their Auxiliary properly. Here’s the link: http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFJ_per.html

Also, here’s an exchange on this message board where an INFJ complained of a specific problem, and I suggested that it might be precisely this problem: Ni-Dom matrices that aren’t checked and revised by Fe: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47780&p=1570024&viewfull=1#post1570024

As for ENFJs: Again, PersonalityPage.com can provide descriptions of ENFJs who are having problems due to not using their Auxiliary.

 

[Joehobo]

Thanks, Joe. I appreciate your feedback. Good thread by the way.


I’m not sure Si has much to do with the problem...

Thank you!

Hm, so I guess the problem is less with being stuck in using Si, its just the lack of use of Ne? I can see the point in that.
Saying the problem is Si would be like saying the function is to be avoided as a whole. Which would defeat the purpose of balance in the functions, or am I just over analysing this?

For example, instead of using your Fi to build one universal "internal model" for human behavior and expecting all humans to follow it (and becoming disillusioned when they don't), you should use your Ne to observe individual humans and see what they are good at: Person 1 is good at art, Person 2 is chatty, Person 3 is highly competitive, etc. And then value those people individually based on their particular strengths...

I've been trying to engage the use of Ne alot more, ever since I'm feeling rather self concious of my interactions with people now however I think this is a symptom of the fact that I'm not realising how flawed my perception of people has become. I think Ne is definately something that seems to need more use from what I can tell, that link certainly did reaffirm that this is the problem I'm facing and I really see how it relates to the flawed idealism. Worse of all I keep applying everything I believe on those close to me. I havn't felt so alienated in a long time, im frustrating people. So this helps a fair bit.

As for NFJs:

In the case of INFJs, similar problems arise with the Dominant chugs along by itself and isn’t reigned in or moderated by the Auxiliary. In other words, Ni-Dom collects up data and factoids and builds matrices with them, but the matrices are increasingly out-of-whack with reality, because they haven’t been subject to reality checks and revision by Fe.

I won’t try to describe the result myself. But you can check the INFJ page at PersonalityPage.com for descriptions of INFJs who aren’t using their Auxiliary properly. Here’s the link: http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFJ_per.html

Also, here’s an exchange on this message board where an INFJ complained of a specific problem, and I suggested that it might be precisely this problem: Ni-Dom matrices that aren’t checked and revised by Fe: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1570024

As for ENFJs: Again, PersonalityPage.com can provide descriptions of ENFJs who are having problems due to not using their Auxiliary.

I checked out those descriptions for XNFJ's, I was qutie suprised, it fit really well with the people I know of those types. I'm trying to come up with ways to now better approach people in times of conflict without getting all self righteous on them. The whole stock sayings, and giving feedback on what people are telling me seems to drive everyone nuts.

As an INFP yourself, you've gone through these similar process' and way of thinking have you?

 

[RDF]

Hm, so I guess the problem is less with being stuck in using Si, its just the lack of use of Ne? I can see the point in that.
Saying the problem is Si would be like saying the function is to be avoided as a whole. Which would defeat the purpose of balance in the functions, or am I just over analysing this?

Sometimes I see posts on the message board talking about an “Fi-Si loop” as Something-To-Be-Avoided for INFPs; I guess it’s a label for what happens when one falls into a rut or a depression. I assume you’re talking about that.

I know that the Fi-Si loop is a staple over at PersonalityCafe. As I understand it, the theory of a Dominant-Tertiary loop is a bastardization of Lenore Thompson’s “Tertiary Temptation” theory and isn’t otherwise mentioned in official typology literature. So TBH I haven’t paid much attention to it.

To me, mention of a “Dominant-Tertiary loop” just highlights the fact that the Auxiliary function is missing from the equation. So it's kind of one and the same: either way, I need to focus on getting the Auxiliary up and running. In other words, in my opinion the key to getting out of a rut or depression is to work on a more realistic view of the world around me and develop a corresponding personal mission statement so that I’ve defined an immediate path forward (all of that usually helps re-engage my Ne), then maybe do some work with my Inferior Te. My Te is my Get-Up-Off-My-Butt function.

In any case, according to the traditional typology sources the Tertiary function usually isn’t considered much of a problem child. I find that my Si and I get along pretty well for the most part.

I'm not trying to put down the Dom-Tert Loop theory so much as I'm just trying to side-step that debate. The main point remains the same either way: We need to re-engage our Auxiliary at such times.

I've been trying to engage the use of Ne alot more, ever since I'm feeling rather self concious of my interactions with people now however I think this is a symptom of the fact that I'm not realising how flawed my perception of people has become. I think Ne is definately something that seems to need more use from what I can tell, that link certainly did reaffirm that this is the problem I'm facing and I really see how it relates to the flawed idealism. Worse of all I keep applying everything I believe on those close to me. I havn't felt so alienated in a long time, im frustrating people. So this helps a fair bit.

Sounds good!

I checked out those descriptions for XNFJ's, I was qutie suprised, it fit really well with the people I know of those types. I'm trying to come up with ways to now better approach people in times of conflict without getting all self righteous on them. The whole stock sayings, and giving feedback on what people are telling me seems to drive everyone nuts.

As to “approaching people in times of conflict,” that’s more of an Fe skill. That would be good fodder for a separate thread. (It would be kind of a tangent here, I think.)

TBH, these days I tend to look for a universal Fe approach to such things rather than working out a separate individualized approach for each type. But if you know a friend’s type, it doesn’t hurt to keep in mind that when that friend is stressed out, he is probably not engaging his particular Auxiiiary.

As an INFP yourself, you've gone through these similar process' and way of thinking have you?

Getting cynical and all that? Sure, way back when.

When I was unemployed and broke at times, I would get stuck in a real bad rut, get cynical, and rail at the world. In railing at the world I was using Ne, but I was using it to project my flawed Fi onto the world (using Ne in an outward direction), rather than using it to revise and edit my Fi (using Ne in an inward direction).

Later on, with a little more age and maturity, I would still get cynical when obstacles popped up, but I wouldn’t rail at the world; instead I would just put those particular problems on the back burner (give up on them temporarily) until I had more leisure to deal with them properly.

IOW, you can’t always have the answers every time. So sometimes you say, “Fuck it” and walk away in disgust. But then you can always return later and try again once you figure out a new angle. No harm in that. It’s a coping mechanism.

And then more recently I've gotten used to engaging my Auxiliary directly, as described above. That's much more satisfying.

 

[Cellmold]

I think the context of this may have been misunderstood, I was speaking in the form of the general interpretation of a cynic.
You sounds more like the true nature of being a cynic, or reasoning more so.
This was more related to reinforcing past experiences of disappointment which have led to a developing mindset which borders pessimism. People not living upto expectations (which are considered unreasonable or unrealistic to begin with.) In specific to INFP, it relates to the Fi - Si. However everyone can experience this to an extent but it does seem very habitual in NF's.

Does alot of the posters experience resonate with you? If so then you certainly fit the context and I'm just misunderstanding you.

I didn't understand either why, but I am beginning to now because of my own experiences. It's more of a habit or way of dealing things being reinforced, its not so simple to just switch off. You actively have to work through it. Applying cynicism in the sense of placing it only where it is applicable is more on the lines of reasoning or skepticism I think, or the true nature of a cynic in the greek philosophy.

Interesting point, unfortunately no a lot of the poster's experiences dont resonate with me, so I think you were right in your assessement of what I put forth as cynicism.

For me that is how ive always experienced it, although I try not to confuse it with a pessimistic misanthropy...which I CAN fall into when something in life speed bumps me, but I see that as different primarily because it is fueled without reason or consideration.

 

[Joehobo]

Sometimes I see posts on the message board talking about an “Fi-Si loop” as Something-To-Be-Avoided for INFPs; I guess it’s a label for what happens when one falls into a rut or a depression. I assume you’re talking about that.

I know that the Fi-Si loop is a staple over at PersonalityCafe. As I understand it, the theory of a Dominant-Tertiary loop is a bastardization of Lenore Thompson’s “Tertiary Temptation” theory and isn’t otherwise mentioned in official typology literature. So TBH I haven’t paid much attention to it.

To me, mention of a “Dominant-Tertiary loop” just highlights the fact that the Auxiliary function is missing from the equation. So it's kind of one and the same: either way, I need to focus on getting the Auxiliary up and running. In other words, in my opinion the key to getting out of a rut or depression is to work on a more realistic view of the world around me and develop a corresponding personal mission statement so that I’ve defined an immediate path forward (all of that usually helps re-engage my Ne), then maybe do some work with my Inferior Te. My Te is my Get-Up-Off-My-Butt function.

In any case, according to the traditional typology sources the Tertiary function usually isn’t considered much of a problem child. I find that my Si and I get along pretty well for the most part.

I'm not trying to put down the Dom-Tert Loop theory so much as I'm just trying to side-step that debate. The main point remains the same either way: We need to re-engage our Auxiliary at such times.

I though I had replied to this earlier. Sorry for the late response. My time on here has been very sporadic.

It really gets around, this thread itself basically reflects that contextually. You assume right, it's exactly what I'm talking about.

Fair enough that you've side stepped that debate, I never knew it originated from one guys theory, I thought it was just a collective of examples. Sounds like its a mutation gone wild haha. Whether or not you paid attention to it, the input you've given me on this thread and the common infp issues thread actually seems to be an answer to the loop we all rave on about, whether or not you intended for it to be. Your primary principal of needed to re-engage our Auxiliary works. Your input actually got me thinking of a lot of things, and whether or not MBTI is practical, the advice you gave was practical, and because of that I began understanding what I could do to better my situation, and with the help of those close to me. Since then my contentment with life has been substantially (and I'm not saying this in a spur of a moment happiness or anything.). I didn't think I'd get that kind of helpful advice here on a forum. Don't be modest, your input along with the other infp's own experiences in this thread truly has helped me, thank you for taking the time out to share your knowledge with me. I truly appreciate it.

I've been reigning in that rebel of a Te, it really is becoming the "Get-Up-Off-My-Butt" function for me as well! I can imagine it is certainly something you have to check in on, make sure it's behaving itself? Have you found Te has become alot easier for you as it's developed, and experience less of the "grips" which has been spoken of.

As to “approaching people in times of conflict,” that’s more of an Fe skill. That would be good fodder for a separate thread. (It would be kind of a tangent here, I think.)

TBH, these days I tend to look for a universal Fe approach to such things rather than working out a separate individualized approach for each type. But if you know a friend’s type, it doesn’t hurt to keep in mind that when that friend is stressed out, he is probably not engaging his particular Auxiiiary.

Probably right hey, regardless it's something I'd like to work on. A universal approach sounds alot more simpler way with things. Just general politness goes along way as well I guess? I suck at that when I get comfortable.. I think thats pretty useful advice though, giving them a chance to cool off and taking a step back. Then going at it again from a more gentle and different angle would sound about right?

Getting cynical and all that? Sure, way back when.

When I was unemployed and broke at times, I would get stuck in a real bad rut, get cynical, and rail at the world. In railing at the world I was using Ne, but I was using it to project my flawed Fi onto the world (using Ne in an outward direction), rather than using it to revise and edit my Fi (using Ne in an inward direction).

Later on, with a little more age and maturity, I would still get cynical when obstacles popped up, but I wouldn’t rail at the world; instead I would just put those particular problems on the back burner (give up on them temporarily) until I had more leisure to deal with them properly.

IOW, you can’t always have the answers every time. So sometimes you say, “Fuck it” and walk away in disgust. But then you can always return later and try again once you figure out a new angle. No harm in that. It’s a coping mechanism.

And then more recently I've gotten used to engaging my Auxiliary directly, as described above. That's much more satisfying.

Unemployed and broke, that would give you way too much time on your hands, and little to do. Bad combination haha. I'm finding it hard to imagine what Ne projecting a flawed Fi actually looks like. I know I project as well, but could you give an example? I'm unsure of what is actually Ne when that is happening, although I do have a fair idea of it working in that inward direction you mentioned.

The way you've grown to engage your auxiliary as a coping mechanism, this I'm all learning to do on a more consistent level now. So it took you some time to get it down, but eventually you got more able to just put things aside till you can sort it. Was there where times you'd have to fight yourself to do that? Like, really fight for it. Putting things on the back burner isn't something that came just like that was it?

 

[Joehobo]

Interesting point, unfortunately no a lot of the poster's experiences dont resonate with me, so I think you were right in your assessement of what I put forth as cynicism.

For me that is how ive always experienced it, although I try not to confuse it with a pessimistic misanthropy...which I CAN fall into when something in life speed bumps me, but I see that as different primarily because it is fueled without reason or consideration.

It's a good kind of cynicism to have that you put forth, that kind gives you a fresh perspective, looking at it from other angles.
You sound like you got a good analytical approach to things, a good amount of skepticism is healthy.

Haha can't we all? In those bumps I think of nothing more than the joy of disappearing. But I'd be alot happier living a healthy life. You see no reason for it?
I always saw it as sometimes neccessary, to keep your feet on the ground. We are humans, a certain amount of suffering is healthy for us. Why is that households who are well off financially, and blindly supportive and giving into their childs every want and needs breeds narcissism, or just a lack of contentment in general? Any extreme is bad, even happiness. Sitting in the middle is good. Would you agree or disagree?

 

[RDF]

[...]Whether or not you paid attention to it, the input you've given me on this thread and the common infp issues thread actually seems to be an answer to the loop we all rave on about, whether or not you intended for it to be. Your primary principal of needed to re-engage our Auxiliary works. Your input actually got me thinking of a lot of things, and whether or not MBTI is practical, the advice you gave was practical, and because of that I began understanding what I could do to better my situation, and with the help of those close to me. Since then my contentment with life has been substantially (and I'm not saying this in a spur of a moment happiness or anything.). I didn't think I'd get that kind of helpful advice here on a forum. Don't be modest, your input along with the other infp's own experiences in this thread truly has helped me, thank you for taking the time out to share your knowledge with me. I truly appreciate it. [...]

Great! I'm delighted when I can pass along some info that makes a real difference. Thanks for the feedback!

As for your other questions in the post, I'll get back to you soon; I need to review the context again and then hopefully write up a useful response or two.

 

[Joehobo]

Great! I'm delighted when I can pass along some info that makes a real difference. Thanks for the feedback!

As for your other questions in the post, I'll get back to you soon; I need to review the context again and then hopefully write up a useful response or two.

It truly has.

Awesomesauce!

One other question.

Whats the reasoning for your signature, grumpy old man?

 

[RDF]

[...]I've been reigning in that rebel of a Te, it really is becoming the "Get-Up-Off-My-Butt" function for me as well! I can imagine it is certainly something you have to check in on, make sure it's behaving itself? Have you found Te has become alot easier for you as it's developed, and experience less of the "grips" which has been spoken of. [...]

As for Te in particular, yes I think I’ve become quite good at it over time. I’ve had to study it from the outside, like learning a foreign language. But in a way that gives me some advantages over people who might use it naturally but not actually know the principles behind it.

(Just for comparison: I’ve seen INTPs and ISTPs who similarly studied their Inferior (Fe) in depth, and could be quite personable and social in company.)

I think Te is best broken down into separate disciplines or levels. For example:

The basics: Filing systems and to-do lists (scheduling). I know INFPs who don’t have even the beginnings of a filing system. All it takes is a cheap file cabinet from Staples or Office Depot, a box of letter-size file folders, and a packet of file folder labels. Don’t fuss about the labeling system; just start shoving paperwork into the file folders and label them however you want. Later, when the existing system gets unwieldy, use the file folder labels to quickly re-label all the folders as needed.

To-do lists should be pretty familiar to any INFP.

A little more advanced: Conquering procrastination and becoming more productive. I posted a couple messages on that subject in this thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56014&p=1868430&viewfull=1#post1868430T

Basically the key is to break everything down into smaller and smaller portions until it’s easy to sit down and just get a small start on a project. Attack things in small bites initially.

A little more advanced yet: Staying productive on long projects (campaigns). I posted a message on that subject in this thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56079&p=1871288&viewfull=1#post1871288

More advanced: Use of personal mission statements to focus one's life and work. Here is that message on mission statements from the "Common INFP Issues" thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...3493&page=23&p=1864883&viewfull=1#post1864883

Even more advanced: Time management and prioritization of tasks. Another old post: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56798&p=1902097&viewfull=1#post1902097

Most advanced: Leadership and management skills. Even if one never holds a management position, at a minimum it’s handy to know about the rules of delegation. For example, when calling in a plumber or electrician to work on my house, I review the five rules of delegation to remind myself of the parameters I want to set for the job:

--Desired results. Not how to do the task, but what is to be done and when; the individual should be given maximum lattitude to achieve results as he sees fit.
--Guidelines. Parameters (principles, policies) within which the individual has to operate, what not to do, etc.
--Resources. Resources the individual can draw on to do the work: human, financial, technical, or organizational support
--Accountability. Performance standards and specific times for reporting and evaluation.
--Consequences. What will happen (good and bad) as a result of the evaluation of the results.

The rules for delegation can also serve as the basis for some parenting interactions, for example, how you assign chores and tasks to teenage children and how much freedom vs monitoring you give them while they do those tasks and chores.

And so on. These are just a sample of possible Te-related subjects.

Oh yeah, and probably the most important thing to remember about Te: Allot lots of time for Te projects. Te isn’t about pushing a few buttons and getting things done quickly; it’s about tackling new challenges, trying out a variety of solutions, and wearing problems down until they yield their secrets. So don’t fear challenges; just allot them lots of time and resolve to make repeated runs at them from a few different directions.

Probably right hey, regardless it's something I'd like to work on. A universal approach sounds alot more simpler way with things. Just general politness goes along way as well I guess? I suck at that when I get comfortable.. I think thats pretty useful advice though, giving them a chance to cool off and taking a step back. Then going at it again from a more gentle and different angle would sound about right?

I’ll try to do something similar with Fe in a follow-up post when I have more time.

Whats the reasoning for your signature, grumpy old man?

I only have limited time available for posting, and I don't want to spend that time dealing with back-channel communications. I prefer to bypass all that and just post on the open message board.

 

[Joehobo]

As for Te in particular, yes I think I’ve become quite good at it over time. I’ve had to study it from the outside, like learning a foreign language. But in a way that gives me some advantages over people who might use it naturally but not actually know the principles behind it.

(Just for comparison: I’ve seen INTPs and ISTPs who similarly studied their Inferior (Fe) in depth, and could be quite personable and social in company.)

I think Te is best broken down into separate disciplines or levels. For example:

The basics: Filing systems and to-do lists (scheduling). I know INFPs who don’t have even the beginnings of a filing system. All it takes is a cheap file cabinet from Staples or Office Depot, a box of letter-size file folders, and a packet of file folder labels. Don’t fuss about the labeling system; just start shoving paperwork into the file folders and label them however you want. Later, when the existing system gets unwieldy, use the file folder labels to quickly re-label all the folders as needed.

To-do lists should be pretty familiar to any INFP.

A little more advanced: Conquering procrastination and becoming more productive. I posted a couple messages on that subject in this thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56014&p=1868430&viewfull=1#post1868430T

Basically the key is to break everything down into smaller and smaller portions until it’s easy to sit down and just get a small start on a project. Attack things in small bites initially.

A little more advanced yet: Staying productive on long projects (campaigns). I posted a message on that subject in this thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56079&p=1871288&viewfull=1#post1871288

More advanced: Use of personal mission statements to focus one's life and work. Here is that message on mission statements from the "Common INFP Issues" thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...3493&page=23&p=1864883&viewfull=1#post1864883

Even more advanced: Time management and prioritization of tasks. Another old post: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56798&p=1902097&viewfull=1#post1902097

Most advanced: Leadership and management skills. Even if one never holds a management position, at a minimum it’s handy to know about the rules of delegation. For example, when calling in a plumber or electrician to work on my house, I review the five rules of delegation to remind myself of the parameters I want to set for the job:

--Desired results. Not how to do the task, but what is to be done and when; the individual should be given maximum lattitude to achieve results as he sees fit.
--Guidelines. Parameters (principles, policies) within which the individual has to operate, what not to do, etc.
--Resources. Resources the individual can draw on to do the work: human, financial, technical, or organizational support
--Accountability. Performance standards and specific times for reporting and evaluation.
--Consequences. What will happen (good and bad) as a result of the evaluation of the results.

The rules for delegation can also serve as the basis for some parenting interactions, for example, how you assign chores and tasks to teenage children and how much freedom vs monitoring you give them while they do those tasks and chores.

And so on. These are just a sample of possible Te-related subjects.

Oh yeah, and probably the most important thing to remember about Te: Allot lots of time for Te projects. Te isn’t about pushing a few buttons and getting things done quickly; it’s about tackling new challenges, trying out a variety of solutions, and wearing problems down until they yield their secrets. So don’t fear challenges; just allot them lots of time and resolve to make repeated runs at them from a few different directions.

I am glad to hear it's something you've refined over the years, I take it you likely have a job which requires a particular standard of organisation? I'm an IT student, so learning stuff like this is pretty damn useful. Project management and organisation skills are key to a career in it. Definitely not a strong point for me haha. So it's important for me to learn.

To do lists that seldom get done, I'm familiar with that haha! I use alot of post it notes though and actually gets things done with that. Uh, I guess I would be one of those INFP's all my work and documentation, letters, and anything else important literally run around loosely in seperate boxes.. amongst other non related things. Thinking about it, that is an excellent suggestion. A filing system would really tidy things up. Is there a particular reason for me not to worry over a labeling system? I'd love to do one but I can imagine it'd side track me from actually putting things in its place haha.

Ah yes. I remember the mission statements. I've actually written that down. It's amongst my loose set of papers though now. Man. Now I can't get out of my head how annoying it is, that they could be organised better haha. I never thought to have a filing cabinent you know? Fresh into adulthood, I hadn't realised how much paperwork I'm starting to accumulate that I might want to backdate.
Back on track though, getting more organised with those mission statements is something I'll need to get on top of. I think I'd feel more comfortable with it as well when I get some more orderliness with that kind of documentation as well.

The two more advanced parts, I can see how it directly relates to project management skills. The rules of delegation as you pointed out, really seems to stress not to micromanage and let some of it flow. I think I can really see how your linking it to parenting interactions. Throwing out that balance can just yield counter productive results, no?

This is really good stuff, even if a sample as you put it.

I'll try to be mindful of that. Challenge myself and repetition till I find a solution.

I’ll try to do something similar with Fe in a follow-up post when I have more time.

Sure if you like, If this is too time consuming (as I know it can be) then it's honestly fine. I don't want to be taking up time for something which isn't a benefit to you. Whether or not you see it that way. You know?

I only have limited time available for posting, and I don't want to spend that time dealing with back-channel communications. I prefer to bypass all that and just post on the open message board.

Ah well thats more than reasonable. That really does take up alot of time.