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  1. #11
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flameskull95 View Post
    I think it's the fact that I walk around and it's feels unreal to me, and it allows me to not take some things like they are or with a genuine approach at all at times, and that can really screw me over.
    Yeah that is definitely problematic. There's no way to solve problems in the real world if your head isn't in the real world. Use your inferior Te! Make some real-world goals. What do you want out of your friends and out of your community? Which of those goals are attainable? How can you compromise with your friends? If your friends really suck as much as you say they do, what sort of friend group would you prefer, and is that type of group attainable? Is there a way for you to seek out your favorite sorts of people, take initiative, and form your own group?
    It feels like I appear to hate everything and am just pessimistic, but it's practically that I have this ideal in my head that is not reality, so I can do nothing but contrast and contrast at least subconsciously.

    It's not that I'm pessimistic I just can't not see the 10,000 ways society is flawed.
    I think this is something 4s and 1s have in common. (Like @skylights, I'm pretty sure you're a 4.) I'm a 1w2 and my former roommate is an INTJ 1w9, and we had lots of late-night conversations about the perils of high standards. She has the exact same issue as you do, regarding this, because she just can't take the fact that society and the world at large doesn't live up to her ideal. But the way I think about it is: just because you see how society is flawed, doesn't mean it has to bug you so much. If you realize that the ideal is impossible, it will no longer be such a prevalent standard in your mind, and it'll be replaced with an imperfect but possible standard. Which is why, even though I'm an optimist and my former roommate is a pessimist, my optimism comes from a more cynical view of humanity than my former roommate's pessimism. I've accepted that humanity is flawed and will always hurt itself, will always be hypocritical, and will always make rules that it can't follow. It annoys me, but it hasn't made me a misanthrope, and it doesn't eat away at me or keep me up at night. So I guess what I'm saying is... you may want to let go of some of your idealism which I realize is easier said than done.
    Yeah and I'm not sure either whether I'm the big 'jerk' here, like you said, but I never said anything bad about him, and he always starts this huge lecture about my flaws, in a conversation I would consider a joke in the first place, (which was presented in a lighthearted manner believe me).
    This is another one of those places where I would want more data. How often does he act like this to you? How often do you act like that to him? Are you sure you weren't misinterpreting his tone? What MBTI type is he? How long have the two of you been friends? etc etc etc.
    That's some great advice about talking to people to stop letting this stuff build up. That might actually work.
    I know it does, because I've had to teach myself to do the same thing. In my case, it's because I hang out with a very sensitive group of people (mostly INFx, with a smattering of ENFJs and some miscellaneous), and I don't want to walk all over their delicate feelings, so if they offend me, I tend to avoid talking about it because I know they'd get upset. But the thing is, they'd get less upset if I was reasonable with them, than if I blew up at them because they postponed getting lunch with me for the third week in a row.

    So... try it! It'll work.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  2. #12
    Senior Member flameskull95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Primarily, it kind of pisses me off that you're not only insulting people on here as well as the collective without explicitly good reason, but on top of that, it's essentially an experiment. I'm not sure how you as an NFP can think that it's okay to just hurt people like that, especially when your anger seems to be in large part about how people behave towards you. I don't think prplchknz was hypocritical in making her point - yes, she demonstrated reciprocal prickliness in response to yours, but hers was hardly even approaching your caliber, and at least hers is genuine. Regardless, I'm going to try to remain neutral in my post - I see clearly that you are hurting and I know that you are removed from the state of mind you were in when first writing your rant - and I know that adding anger to anger generally solves little.



    This is where you're totally off-base in your first post too - you have this idea that everyone's against you. Even collectively. Where is this coming from? I'll address this again later, but honestly, people mostly really probably don't care about you that much. It's a very egotistical standpoint to think that people are this invested in bringing you down individually, much less that they have coordinated their time and energy to bring you down.

    The way I see it, your rant was actually doing just fine, until you threw in that nasty little paragraph at the end. I know, because I have the tendency to do it too, to go ahead and throw in that little zinger telling the person listening to you and probably ready and willing to help you if you ask for it that they're worthless and the whole reason you're all angry in the first place.

    First of all, I think almost all NFPs present a softer, warmer persona to the outside world because what is inside is too dark, serious, and chaotic to reasonably present to strangers on a consistent basis. You would scare everyone away and never make any meaningful connections. This is kind of unfortunate, but people have boundaries and fears because it keeps us alive - fear is a deeply biological mechanism. You have to allow for "limiting crap" because humans are restricted by all sorts of things like natural drives, personal differences, fears, biases, bad experiences, and so on. As you seem to see, you are trying to put just as many restrictions on the world by expecting the world to conform to your ideals as you feel like the world puts on INFPs. You have to let go of that vision of perfection and let the world be what it is. And be grateful when you notice that there are pretty lights for you to enjoy, instead of scorning those who have the wisdom to be able to appreciate them as they are.

    Secondly, I don't know how you are around your friends, but you sound like an arrogant ass to me right now. This is not coming from a place of hypocrisy or desire to attack you - but the conceptions you are putting forth are clearly self-centered and dismissing of others.

    I don't know how to address the situation with your friends' friends, but if it's not worth repairing things, just don't. You can be civil without being social. I do think it would be worth trying to delve further into the situation via your (ex) friend to understand why they are getting so offended, since then perhaps you could have the outsider viewpoint of yourself. Furthermore, IME, it is understandable why your friend may have been more pissed off than your target - your friend probably was afraid he could lose a potential friendship due to his association with you. Whereas the guy you were yelling at probably didn't really have anything to lose in the situation. And your friend probably had no idea where to even begin dealing with you when you were that angry, even though he's your friend and would more than likely want to help you feel better.

    I don't really understand what you mean by them trying to make you do what they want you to do and shut your mouth. What is it you're doing and saying that is so threatening to them? Can you just get away from them? Regardless, I don't think it's true that you can't be yourself without exploding in others' face. INFPs often have trouble being assertive without being passive-aggressive. I've had to work on this, too, and it's difficult but very, very rewarding. It feels like half blowing off steam and half stopping trouble before it starts. It makes everyone happier and more sane.



    Back on what I was saying at the beginning of my post, there's a certain saying in psychiatry that "paranoia involves a certain degree of narcissism". In other words, I seriously doubt that you are so threatening and provoking that every single person here has ostracized you and is trying to tear you down. Frankly, I doubt most of us care. Those of us who do care are here in this thread and trying to help you. Unless I've somehow missed the big conspiracy - and I'm pretty active on here, so I doubt it - no one's collectively against you. And, of course, the forums are fraught with people who have problems and worries and stresses and struggles. That's why forums exist, because we come together to share the benefits of collective thought.



    So are you, duh.



    Your premise is vastly flawed. There is no community out to get you. You are framing yourself as a victim and continuing to do so will not help you in any way.

    Instead of attacking the forum, you ought to be grateful there's a group of people here who, despite your deprecating comments, are still genuinely interested in improving your life, even though they don't know you at all. There are many, many, many kind, deep, generous, bright, and sincere people on here, and you are acting as if they are shallow because they have not all gathered around and catered to your vision of how the forum should work - even though you only have a handful of posts under your belt. I have no idea what you mean by "wallpost", but it's pretty clear that you have a lot of pent up anger and it's all being lumped together inside and blamed on "the outsiders" who are not you, instead of you trying to separate situations and clarify where you've gone wrong and how you can compromise to begin to progress forwards. Now, should you desire to have circumstances remain the same, you could continue to wallow in your self-pity and anger and feelings of being misunderstood and isolated.

    I honestly, really, think that this is very much an issue of having a subjective / introverted lens, and focusing on what everyone else is doing wrong and how they are not living up to what your ideals are, and you are going to be miserable to an extent until you fully grasp that you are just the same as everyone else, someone who is struggling and surviving and trying to improve the world as you know how, with just as many problems and desires, and if you're not getting what you want, you have to communicate and interact and be assertive. You are part of the community, and by envisioning yourself as an outsider, you're not only deluding yourself, but you're also failing to play your part as a social being on this planet who must interact and depend on others to survive. Essentially, by setting yourself apart, you're doing others as much as disservice as you feel like they are doing to you.

    Incidentally - are you an Enneagram 4? This seems like a 4 issue.



    This too.
    To speak earnestly I think you're writing only offends and condemns my existence. Someone you don't know clearly. But I'm not saying that out of arrogance, just out of the pure rationality that you will probably won't ever even meet me this lifetime, and you don't know me.

    I know it's really hard for you guys to see me as anything but arrogant, and that's because all I did was be pessimistic and bring this cloud around my "OP"; which is like the 'first impression'. But if you could just imagine the one person you care about who cannot express himself in real life, finally confessing his issues to you, would you help him or tell him how wrong he is? That's practically what's up here, 'cause honest to god, I would not have the balls to tell this to your face if I met you in real life, unless I was verry angry, and knew you too well.

    Anyway, I don't do the same experimentation as say an ENFP or ENTP, but I guess it's the same gist of me just "letting it out". And now just saying it was to see how you'd react, because that's the only thing I can get out of it now. Petty but like the other person said I need someone to express myself to without it building up on the inside without exploding.

    The other poster's reply was pretty harsh, and she treated me like an arrogant ass, I don't always reply "how so?" because the ideal in my head knows to expect it. But if you tell me rationally and clearly... I don't even expect you to say it nicely, just make sure to say ALL of it... I will listen....

    I'm crazy like that I know, but I try my best to express myself, even though I have a really bad time doing that 'cause I have proof that I'm screwed up and that I have people that I don't even know writing out essays on what's wrong with me.

    And I guess I'm lucky for having people I've never talked to and now who are bagging me for a a bunch of writing I wrote on a forum. Do you hear yourself right now? Are you being genuine? or is it that righteous ENFP talk going on... I have an ENfP sister and an ENTP bro and an INTP dad, and we collide on a daily basis. But I love my sister a lot purely for her opinions on things usually always turning out to be true. So I will consider it, but you still are a stubborn jack, by the vibe of what you've posted, and I guess that vibe makes you a hypocrite in my head. But I guess a lot of screwed up crap happens there.

    Anyway, practically to sum up whatever I'm trying to express right now, I already heard all the problem areas... and I think I'm already familiar with the reasons behind what you're saying.. what's the advice you want to give me about it? Where this resolve your type always seems to result to openly ?

    Other than that, Eneagram 4 like Bob Dylan? That's awesome.
    I'm a INFP - The sociopath

    I think I'm either a 4w5, 4w3, 6w5 or 9w1. Most possibly 4w5.

    Feeling FiNe

  3. #13
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flameskull95 View Post
    To speak earnestly I think you're writing only offends and condemns my existence. Someone you don't know clearly. But I'm not saying that out of arrogance, just out of the pure rationality that you will probably won't ever even meet me this lifetime, and you don't know me.

    I know it's really hard for you guys to see me as anything but arrogant, and that's because all I did was be pessimistic and bring this cloud around my "OP"; which is like the 'first impression'. But if you could just imagine the one person you care about who cannot express himself in real life, finally confessing his issues to you, would you help him or tell him how wrong he is? That's practically what's up here, 'cause honest to god, I would not have the balls to tell this to your face if I met you in real life, unless I was verry angry, and knew you too well.
    To be fair...

    This is like what I was just saying in my previous post, about second-guessing everything you wrote in the OP. The only feedback we can give you is based on what you gave us -- which meshed pretty well with @skylights' post. Really, the only difference between her post and mine was tone. (She was much more offended than me.)

    If I were you, I'd cut her some slack. Firstly, she's an NFP too, so she knows where you're coming from in a lot of ways -- certainly more ways than I would. Secondly, you actually were pretty insulting to the forum. I decided not to take those comments very literally, because I figured it was the natural progression of irrational Fi/Ne/4 anger to go from the micro level to the macro level (specifically, from "my friends are against me" to "the entire forum is against me"), abruptly and for no real reason. But I can see how many people on the forum would be offended by what you said, especially since, frankly, you're a new member and have barely had any time to dip your toe into the vast ocean that is the TypeC Social Network. In fact, your gut response of "you don't know me, how dare you" is exactly the same reaction as skylights', which was "you don't know this community, how dare you".

    So... I'm just saying that maybe you should give her post another read-through, for the objective points and not the tone, and you'll see that she and I are both right.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  4. #14
    Senior Member flameskull95's Avatar
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    Well at least you're honest unlike the other INFP person. I think you can relate even better because I'm a negative ESTJ when I'm stressed. And this is all stress. Anyway, you said a lot of worthwhile stuff, and I was being pretty arrogant and you said that in a way that your negative emotions didn't get a hold of your reasoning like the other posters did, so I can rely on you.

    And to those questions about the supposed friend, well since you're asking I'll take an unbiased viewpoint, well first of all, he clearly doesn't have a good tone, because it's just literally insulting the things said. Right out of context, by his wording, his intentions are clear... like "And do you actually wonder why people talk shit about you behind your back?", "The group doesn't like the way you act, because you always make some smart ass comments like this". This was a reply to me going "My friend... what is shit?", when he said "stop saying retarded shit". It was a purely a joke that friends make.

    Practically what ticks me off most is the fact that everyone seems to talk about the way I do things. How can I filter things like that out with my Te, and feel sure about it with what ever my feeling function is, if I can never get a confirmation on what the way I act/say something. It's the same with whenever I collide with my ENfP sister and ENTP brother.

    But anyway, I'm guessing the other INFP is an INFP girl, and INFPs as girls have it much easier than INFP guys to be honest. It's just true... INFP girls grow up into that little princess protective globe, where the world just appreciates them as who they are. While us guy INFPs are called "fruits" and "bags" and "fruitbags" for acting "gay". So yeah, when I hear all these complexities on how bad a person I am, I get a bit angry. And I guess I was being a jerk for saying "Oh HEY look at TYPEC - an OUTLET FOR MY ANGER WHERE NOONE CAN POSSIBLY SHUT ME OFF", because that's just mean because I don't know you guys either and this forum probably means a lot to you guys even though I can't wrap my head around that.
    Last edited by flameskull95; 06-15-2012 at 05:40 AM.
    I'm a INFP - The sociopath

    I think I'm either a 4w5, 4w3, 6w5 or 9w1. Most possibly 4w5.

    Feeling FiNe

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