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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    Note: I tend to sound outraged and super-invested when arguing or debating something. I'm actually neither... just enthusiastic.
    *eats apple* Do you talk this way to your psychiatrist as well? lol.

    Yes, decisions based on feeling can indeed make people appear flaky. Being that around half of all decisions are feeling based, this should come as no surprise.

    I came up with an example on the spot of something light, which might still offend someone. It's something anyone could do, so I'm surprised at the objection. Of course the average NF cares about people--I could come up with another example based on that: Instead of a band, it's an old friend come to visit. Then you have to prioritize among people, possibly make an F decision, and likely trust whatever choice you make to be the best one, ignoring any criticism.

  2. #62
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    *eats apple* Do you talk this way to your psychiatrist as well? lol.

    Yes, decisions based on feeling can indeed make people appear flaky. Being that around half of all decisions are feeling based, this should come as no surprise.

    I came up with an example on the spot of something light, which might still offend someone. It's something anyone could do, so I'm surprised at the objection. Of course the average NF cares about people--I could come up with another example based on that: Instead of a band, it's an old friend come to visit. Then you have to prioritize among people, possibly make an F decision, and likely trust whatever choice you make to be the best one, ignoring any criticism.

    Oh come on, your example wasn't at all offensive. The trusting judgements and ignoring any criticism sounds awfully Ni... but then I'm right back where I started. Fuggit, I'm going to bed, and I'm taking my F'n with me .

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    Oh come on, your example wasn't at all offensive. The trusting judgements and ignoring any criticism sounds awfully Ni... but then I'm right back where I started. Fuggit, I'm going to bed, and I'm taking my F'n with me .
    I meant the jilted party could be offended.

    I can use functions in arguments if that's the modus operandi: People make decisions with Feeling and Thinking. They gather information (however accurate) with Sensing and Intuition. This is why F&T are called judging functions and S&N are called perceiving functions. In other words, people don't make decisions with S or N.

  4. #64
    EvanTheClown (ETC) Clownmaster's Avatar
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    talk about opening a small can of worms.

    Because you can't spell "Slaughter" without "Laughter"

  5. #65
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    i felt really offended till i saw that it was sakuraba posting. funny that.

  6. #66
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    NF's in my experience are the kings and queens of the following back-handed apologies:

    - I'm sorry you feel that way
    - I didn't mean to bring it up
    - I'm sorry it upset you
    - I don't know how I could've acted otherwise

    etc... none of which actually acknowledges any fault on their own part except for unintentionally causing your negative emotions, but never, never for your emotion being VALID because what they did was WRONG.
    Ahahahahhaha!

    Dude, I've taken conflict resolution and 'communication' classes and I'll have you know, that's what you are SUPPOSED to say!

    Hahahahaha.

    BTW, it's actually part of an overall validation tactic. Your feelings are valid, my feelings are valid, we're all valid. It's a happy flippin' world! I don't things those sentences in themselves are invalidating, but tone and context color in the rest.

    And you NT's are so funny, wanting people to say, "I'm wrong, you're right."

    I know an INTP who said almost the exact same thing to someone she was arguing with when that was said ie "I'm sorry you feel that way". The INTP shot back "That's not a real apology." And I remember thinking, "Umm... I don't think that's *meant* to be an actual apology, because that girl obviously doesn't think she's done anything 'wrong' -- and I have to agree with her!"

    I only know from my own experiences that most of the time in most conflicts I don't think there's a clear "right" or "wrong" or one person who was 'bad' and the other who was 'faultless'. Different personalities = conflict. Different people = conflict. Such is life.

    Also, I think it may be a communication/intent/interpretation issue.

    "I'm sorry [I made you] feel that way."

    Better now?

    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Dude, I've taken conflict resolution and 'communication' classes and I'll have you know, that's what you are SUPPOSED to say!
    I'm sure there are different schools of thought on the issue, such as...

    BTW, it's actually part of an overall validation tactic. Your feelings are valid, my feelings are valid, we're all valid. It's a happy flippin' world! I don't things those sentences in themselves are invalidating, but tone and context color in the rest.
    I don't know if I can speak for substitute when I say it's the obvious insincerity which would be the annoyance in a case like that--for me, at least. I can take plenty of brute force (like "go to hell, you're wrong, and your brain is made of shit, and here's why:"), but misdirection is never appreciated. Diffr'nt strokes for diffr'nt folks, I suppose.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    "I'm sorry you feel that way." Sounds to me like an indirect way to tell the person the problem is theirs and doesn't acknowledge that one's own act contributed to the problem.


    The concept of "You MADE me feel. . ." implies that one has no control over their feelings and is at the mercy of others.

    If one is genuinely sorry it's better communication to say, "I did _______, and you feel __________ and I am sorry." That acknowledges that two people helped create the situation and implies that two people will contribute to the solution.

    Get into excuses and reasons and you'll lose the conflict resolution focus. Focus on the other person instead of one's self will also muddy the waters. Each person needs to own and express their own feelings and needs.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  9. #69
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I'll apologize if I've done something wrong, but I won't be lead. If I see what I've done has caused upset, but I still believe what I said was accurate to the situation, then I will say I'm sorry for hurting the other person because my aim wasn't to cause harm, and I *DO* feel their agitation and upset inside myself. I'm sorry to cause hurt with someone I care about. But I won't go back on what I said.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  10. #70
    Member Brooke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    I'll apologize if I've done something wrong, but I won't be lead. If I see what I've done has caused upset, but I still believe what I said was accurate to the situation, then I will say I'm sorry for hurting the other person because my aim wasn't to cause harm, and I *DO* feel their agitation and upset inside myself. I'm sorry to cause hurt with someone I care about. But I won't go back on what I said.
    I agree. If I don't feel like what I said was wrong, then I won't apologize for it, but I will apologize for upsetting them.

    Also, this whole thing about NFs being uber selfish is just... pissing me off. I mean, in a friendly way (I love a good argument), but still pissed. I tend to (and I wonder, do other INFJs do this?) work so hard to protect those around me's view of the world and their feelings that I forget or just decide to ignore my own needs. Now, I'm not saying I'll forget to eat or something, but I do things for them even if I REALLY don't feel like it. Thereby kind of denying myself a nice time or whatever. And yeah, I know it's kind of self destructive (at least, my shrink assures me it is) but I don't see it changing anytime soon.

    Anybody else have this problem?
    "They all work really hard everyday and they're dissatisfied. I mean, I can be dissatisfied without hardly working at all."
    - Wonderfalls

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