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  1. #201
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    I do happen to agree with you Jack! everyone knows I am a supporter of ISTJs in general but if I have one negative thing to say about them it would be their absolute loyalty to a point of view or a position, to the point that they try to convert EVERYONE else to it too and if you are not converted you are not simply 'wrong' but it becomes more personal than that and you become less of a person, invalid...
    ... couldn't drag me away

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  2. #202
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronte View Post

    No thats pure ignorance
    Why don't you explain how it works then!?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #203
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Have you forgotten already? I suggest you go back to your first post and look, then.
    Do you understand my 'initial hypothesis', if so, recapitulate it.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #204
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tml#post423419

    This may help. I was assuming it was meant to be a reasoned hypothesis rather than a statement of opinion. Please correct me if my assumption is incorrect. Unfortunately I have to depart this enjoyable and thoroughly amusing discussion now as my S0 wishes me to go to dinner. And going to dinner with one's partner, bluewing, is not an axiom, but a statement of fact. Just in case you were wondering ;-)

  5. #205
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tml#post423419

    This may help. I was assuming it was meant to be a reasoned hypothesis rather than a statement of opinion. Please correct me if my assumption is incorrect. Unfortunately I have to depart this enjoyable and thoroughly amusing discussion now as my S0 wishes me to go to dinner. And going to dinner with one's partner, bluewing, is not an axiom, but a statement of fact. Just in case you were wondering ;-)
    You have cited the entire thread, not one particular statement.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #206
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    I do happen to agree with you Jack! everyone knows I am a supporter of ISTJs in general but if I have one negative thing to say about them it would be their absolute loyalty to a point of view or a position, to the point that they try to convert EVERYONE else to it too and if you are not converted you are not simply 'wrong' but it becomes more personal than that and you become less of a person, invalid...
    wow...really.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  7. #207
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    Hang on there Wild horses... They are dragging me into making a sweeping statement about a type that I love.. what I meant to say was that I have expereinced this type of behaviour with a few ISTJs that I have come across *wiping the sweat for her brow*
    ... couldn't drag me away

    Željko Ražnatovic: argus
    Željko Ražnatovic: do you want heir's?
    WildHorses: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    Željko Ražnatovic: to carry your genealogical code??

  8. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    It wasn't about feelings Blue. Nice to see you do react eventually. It's about being openminded to another perspective, both on the issue and the way people express themselves. Not everyone writes in your style. Just because you have more trouble reading 'their' style, doesn't mean they should conform to you, nor that their points are invalid. I do enjoy your essays, but because of the difference in style, they require me to read them several times to get what you're getting at, just as rags' posts are difficult to you.
    I read them pretty clearly first time. His arguments are well structured. He has a bit of a blind spot as far as recognising when the scope of his understanding is too limited to claim certain things, but the majority of his responses are quite sound and valid. I agree with you that it would be nice if he had the adaptability to read our responses. But NFJs rarely state any logical reasoning behind their outputs, and NFPs rarely structure their outputs clearly enough for those who don't read our language. I know we can clearly read eachother's posts because we state the information an ENFP needs to see the picture. But most types work a little further from entropy. It needs to be fleshed out with more information to make it clear. And the links that seem to be obviously inferred to us, are not so obvious to others.

    Personally I think we are wrong on the cold thinking part. Cognitive normally refers to methods of acquiring knowledge and understanding. Ts are not emotionless, they just use emotion less in their processing of ideas. We use thinking (logical function) less in our processing of ideas. Which probably makes us less logical and rational, but doesn't mean we come up with the wrong answers. That is an unjustified assumption based on limited understanding. A real world test is enough to disprove it. At work in the last two weeks I derived the last year's worth of work output from the T types without prior knowledge of the work. I came up with exactly the same assumptions, flaws, workings of the system because I could see it. eg. You could logically analyse a tree your whole life, but if I put a complete picture of everything to do with that object in front of you with how every aspect linked and the consequences of each of those links on everything in its surrounding environment, and how it basically fitted into the universe, then your logic would be some playing around in the dark. Like feeding the computer some numbers for a simulation and letting it give an output. Difference is almost all my simulations match real world output when later compared. Whereas most of the thinker's ones look sound and solid, and keep people happy.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  9. #209
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    A world without feeling is not possible, because feeling is the cognitive faculty that inhibits or excites our impulses to act. If this did not exist, we simply would be devoid of all motivations to act. For instance, if a mathematician lacked feeling altogether he would have no reason to prefer a plausible proof to an implausible one. Normally he gets a positive sentiment when he sees a plausible idea and a negative sentiment when he sees an implausible idea.

    I would prefer a world however where there were no Feelers, this would be the world where everyone uses Feeling in a controlled fashion, not volatile. People would be acting on whim a lot less than they do today, as they would be less likely to be satisfied with believing in something just because it feels right or doing something only because they feel like it, as primacy of Thinking over Feeling insists on some rational basis to ground the decision in.
    That is well put. If I could make a choice about it, I would probably prefer such a world, although I'm not certain it would exclude all Feelers. Since such a world is not the case, there is something to be said for finding a reasonable way to accept it and negotiate one's way around whatever happens to exist. I still come down to the reasoning that we are all limited by our experience and genetics. I could be the mistaken person or the recklessly hurtful one depending on how I happened to be put together. An assumption of core equality can resolve some of the inherent conflicts and misunderstandings of this simply, at least in certain cases. Thoughts?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    That is well put.
    No it isn't. It's the same thing as openly wishing water is wine. It's probably not going to get you anywhere.

    Excellence lies in truthful analysis, not in stating which mindset is better than another.

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