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  1. #141
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried View Post
    If that is the case, that is fine and I admit its an error in my judgement. I should've taken it with more humour.





    Logic is the most objective concept that humans have approximated. Logic efficiently utilised in maths, is hardly falsified, that is correct, but the person utilising its logical variant in understanding human tendencies, is not as efficient in its usage, since human nature is not as accurately quantifiable as say maths. A person's subjective experiences in life, limit the use of logic because of constraint by time in history, culture, family, peers, nature to name some. Imperfections, in this regard have to be accepted, otherwise effective critique in logic can be hindered and contextual understanding of MBTI in the remit of other thought, which would hinder precision and refinement. Taking an absolutionist approach to the perfection of one's logical perception, will cause a slow down, in taking into account more subtle methodological critques of one's perspective. There is difference in acknowledgment and proactively critiquing one's absolutionist approach.

    Your point is valid, when taking in various assumed variables about the internal and external world. It depends on what environment the Thinker or Feeler is trying to progress in, if there is heavy focus on a value system and social cohesion, there can be situations, where the thinker can potentailly suffer from his or her feeling deficiencies. Also this is under the assumption, that the "purpose" you describe is of an equal race end, between thinkers and feelers. Thinkers may have a solid purpose, while NFs, being of the idealist quandrant have a similarly hypothetical equivalent of "purpose", but are perfectionists, so want further refinement, this can cause a relative slowdown true, however the irrational function of NF, may cause them to work harder once that purpose is obtained, than the logics of a thinker would, causing societal progress i.e Martin Luther King, Gandhi, to mention the prominent ones or at least arbitary self gain, which is considered a bad thing for some. All humans are selfish though in some manner, it varies, overlaps and is a lot down to perception.

    The clear sense of self issue, is a drawback, individual's emotions are hard to measure objectively, posing more difficulty in the one that has more prominent usage in it, that is fair. I have no objection that Ti/Te users would be at a natural advantage in impersonal analysis generally and the difference you explained between Ti conceptual advantage and Te implementation advantage.

    Btw, I find your opinions very interesting and thought provoking, even if I don't agree with everything, there aren't many that contribute so much in their posts.
    We have established that only through logical thinking one can have a clear-cut purpose.

    Martin Luther and Ghandi were NFs who had a clear-cut purpose. Therefore they were the exceptional NFs who were skilled at things they are not talented in. Such NFs are rare as very few of us are skilled at what we are not talented in.

    [QUOTE=Kestrel;423789]I generally find your posts to be informative, from a logical standpoint. But it's pretty clear you have a strong bias in favor of T over F.

    Who defines what these "priorities" are? For an NF, feeling good involves making sure others are also feeling good. Perhaps this is not a logical priority, but it is still a priority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that you don't quite understand NF's because you're trying to logically analyze them. Since your priorities are based upon efficiency and utility, it's not surprising you would see NF's as flighty, unstructured, and undisciplined. But be aware that your NT inclinations are filtering your perspective of reality. Objectivity here is limited.
    I am sure NFs would like to think they care about others as much as they care about themselves, but this could only be so if they go against their natural predilections. That cannot be so unless they use Thinking. If they use Feeling, they are doing merely what feels right, and people are selfish by nature. Most NFs are not good at the use of Thinking and therefore are unable to avoid being selfish. Our lower functions tend to be subordinate to the higher. Hence, an NF has an irrational vision produced by N and F that they are an altruistic person and therefore use Thinking to convince themselves that this is so.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  2. #142
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    wow, and ENFP's are the ones 'accused' of using all their energy to shove comments aside because they don't wanna hear them?
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  3. #143
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Bluewing: You seemed by your numerous requests for me to elaborate on what I was saying either to be having difficulty in comprehending me, or to have a real wish for me to analyse your hypothesis in more detail. If you would like me to show you in more detail how your argument is flawed by your subjectivity and emotiveness, I would be delighted to do so on another thread in a more appropriate location, such as the phillosophy or psycholgy sub-forums. I am not going to do so further on this thread, however, as it has recieved far too much attention already and has become hijacked by discussion of your hypothesis since you posted. Please set up a thread for this purpose, inform me of it, and restate your original premise, and I would be happy to discuss ithe subject with you further.

  4. #144
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    Is it just me or is there some kind of cold war going on between the NTs and NFs (A cold war that we don't know we're?) There seems to be more and more threads emerging by NTs ranting over NFs and our forums, our ways, jeez our very existence.. LOL And I though my ISTJ friends had it tough on here...
    ... couldn't drag me away

    eljko Ranatovic: argus
    eljko Ranatovic: do you want heir's?
    WildHorses: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    eljko Ranatovic: to carry your genealogical code??

  5. #145
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    Is it just me or is there some kind of cold war going on between the NTs and NFs (A cold war that we don't know we're?) There seems to be more and more threads emerging by NTs ranting over NFs and our forums, our ways, jeez our very existence.. LOL And I though my ISTJ friends had it tough on here...
    It's not the NTs, it is Bluewing and a select few.
    Whoops.

  6. #146
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    Oh ok well that makes me feel better... and less outnumbered
    ... couldn't drag me away

    eljko Ranatovic: argus
    eljko Ranatovic: do you want heir's?
    WildHorses: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    eljko Ranatovic: to carry your genealogical code??

  7. #147
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    To Bluewing: You seem to have formed your opinion and then tried to make it "truth" by using what you call "Logical thinking". If you are NT as you claim then this is not natural for you, rather backward. I think you need to stop projecting just because one or two supposed NFs in your life hurt your feelings.
    Whoops.

  8. #148
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    It's called putting us in our place, BW will settle down to lurking again once he runs out of fuel.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #149
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    Is it just me or is there some kind of cold war going on between the NTs and NFs
    Noooooo!
    I y'all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #150
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Noooooo!
    I y'all.
    Quick, she's showing emotion, hug her now!
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