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  1. #121
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Bluewing, you are committing the somewhat converse error of seeing the MBTI not as a somewhat imperfect, but useful model for understanding reality, but as something that is complete in itself..
    Explain your reasoning to support this conclusion.


    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Then you analyse certain type functions, detatched from the human context which give them their significance, to their ultimate logical conclusions. The conclusions, however, are now so decontextualised that they bear little - I will not say no, as there is a certain amount of truth in there, but little relationship to the way in which people actually operate..
    Explain your reasoning to support this conclusions.



    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    You appear to be basing your whole chain of reasoning on an unacknowledged subjective belief of your own: that NF's are poor at abstract reasoning and incapable of being objective (In bold). This would only be correct if the functions a person had access to correlated strictly to the major processes expressed in their type, and was in practice limited to those..
    It is true that we access all of our functions, but we are naturally more talented at the use of some than at the use of others. We tend to be poor at the use of the functions that we are not talented at.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    This is simply not the case; any one person has access to the full range of cognitive functions possible, as described by MBTI. ..
    Thats right, we all use all functions, though we tend not to use all functions competently.


    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    In MBTI terms it is an indicator of maturity in an individual when they have developed their inferior functions to the degree where they are able to use them appropriately, according to circumstance; though their cognitive preference - the trait which the MBTI classifies, may indeed remain as it is. ..
    Most of us are capable of using our inferior function with competence by maturity, though not consistently. The use of our inferior function is analogous to our attempt to pursue activities that require us to cultivate skills that we have least natural talent towards.


    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    You have typed yourself as INTP - I can believe that, as a core weakness of the natural INTP process is often in data collection, where insufficient focus on obtaining accurate information through perceptive Ni may result in formulating a theory that though logically sound in itself, is lacking in external applicability through omission of key data..
    Generally this is true, but not relevant to this discussion. When you read an author you regard their claims as either true or false based on the content of their claims themselves and not their biography. Their type is part of their biography, biography is irrelevant.

    You are free to read more of my stuff on typology here.


    Principles of Typology


    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    I would suggest going back to the drawing board on this one rather than continuing trying to view everything through the distorting prism of MBTI type ALONE.
    What is everything?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  2. #122
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by am_i_evil666 View Post


    What??? WHat does "good people" mean to you?
    I mean 'good' in the sense that NFs tend to use the word. To them it is a very fuzzy idea that is something like ' I am compassionate, I am friendly, I am nice'.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #123
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    NFs are neither good or bad people by nature. If it is a reliable category to discuss, it is at best a fuzzy group of people who share similar cognitive processes applied to different goals. They share something in the method of thinking when perceiving, problem solving, and acting in the world. The content of that is as varied as it is for any MBTI category. It is unfortunate to get hurt enough by someone to express it like it is in the opening post. At the time it can make sense to categorize the problem person and then project those traits onto a whole category of unknown people in hopes of avoiding a repeat of the unpleasant interaction. Unfortunately it isn't going to work for a couple of reasons: 1. MBTI does not apply to all people perfectly. It has some interesting insights, but it is far from fail-proof. It isn't science. 2. Even if it were reliable, applying it in a prejudicial way will not have reliable results. The person in the OP along with all of us who use prejudice as a way to protect ourselves from harm from others, it doesn't work. We are guaranteed to get hurt again.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    it is at best a fuzzy group of people.
    This I can accept.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I mean 'good' in the sense that NFs tend to use the word. To them it is a very fuzzy idea that is something like ' I am compassionate, I am friendly, I am nice'.
    It is not understandable for me how you entered into the minds of all the NFs in the world to find that out. Really, NF is not a group of identical persons with identical views and in this case, the same idea of what "good" means. It's just wrong to say "To them is......" , it's just like you would say " To SJs good means that, to NTs good means that, etc.

    I'm not sure how you concluded that good is something like ' I am compassionate, I am friendly, I am nice' for NFs.

  6. #126
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by am_i_evil666 View Post
    It is not understandable for me how you entered into the minds of all the NFs in the world to find that out. Really, NF is not a group of identical persons with identical views and in this case, the same idea of what "good" means. It's just wrong to say "To them is......" , it's just like you would say " To SJs good means that, to NTs good means that, etc.

    I'm not sure how you concluded that good is something like ' I am compassionate, I am friendly, I am nice' for NFs.
    Where do you see me saying this is how all NFs think? I said most, however.

    The interpretation you have above is evidence of your failure of rationality.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Where do you see me saying this is how all NFs think? I said most, however.

    The interpretation you have above is evidence of your failure of rationality.


    "I mean 'good' in the sense that NFs tend to use the word. To them it is a very fuzzy idea that is something like ' I am compassionate, I am friendly, I am nice'."

    But the issue was not necessarily if they were "all" or "the majority".

    I didn't understand how you got to the conclusion in the post above. You focused on another problem, which was, however, unimportant to the original issue, instead of offering a real response.

  8. #128
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by am_i_evil666 View Post


    "I mean 'good' in the sense that NFs tend to use the word. To them it is a very fuzzy idea that is something like ' I am compassionate, I am friendly, I am nice'."

    But the issue was not necessarily if they were "all" or "the majority".

    I didn't understand how you got to the conclusion in the post above. You focused on another problem, which was, however, unimportant to the original issue, instead of offering a real response.
    The problem is their lack of attunement with the Thinking function which leads to errors associated with faulty use of that faculty.

    But in any case, try not to think too much about it. Sleep it off, you'll feel differently then, and when you feel differently, obviously your whole world will change. Just dont worry okay? Its all a matter of feel anyways!
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  9. #129
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Bluewing, I always find it fascinating that you are able to overanalyze something so much and yet at times still not get the point in the end, although you do not realize this. Yes, you are right, our T is weaker and causes our perception of the world to be different from yours. But the same could be said for your F, which, I think, is unbalanced to say the least, which makes you equally impaired.

    Now, I know you love to analyze and by all means do so, coz you do have some interesting theories at times. But please don't forget that they are only theories, and that you could be way off. Not to mention that there is no way for you to test said theories as you are unable to experience the subject matter first hand, nor know what's inside their minds. So please refrain from judging what you do not know/understand (although I commend you on trying to understand)

    In short: Don't judge a book by its cover. Oh and we appreciate the attempt at trying to read the book, but unfortunately it was written in a language which you are not exactly adept at. We do *not* appreciate you writing online reviews about said book and whether or not it was worth the read
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    The problem is their lack of attunement with the Thinking function which leads to errors associated with faulty use of that faculty.

    But in any case, try not to think too much about it. Sleep it off, you'll feel differently then, and when you feel differently, obviously your whole world will change. Just dont worry okay? Its all a matter of feel anyways!
    Your opinions are often provided with in depth analysis and argument. Your sarcastic tone, however is a sign of deficiency with feeling and arrogance. To function in the world and have efficient character growth, T's must learn to understand and overcome their F weaknesses as much as possible and vice versa for Fs, Amargith mentioned, having a different primary function is much like a different language in relative MBTI terms. In those cases one's own quantification of other types needs to be balanced with taking into account of actual type's perspectives, obviously with critique. Thinking has it flaws, it can prove ruthless and inconsiderate if devoid of feeling. This can prove a problem for Ti, since its subjective logic and has inferior Fe. This isn't to say feeling doesn't have issues, it can be problematic when it becomes too narcissistic and begins to placate or control overs due to insecurities.

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