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  1. #111
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lane777 View Post
    Interesting perspective, although to assume everyone who respounds to Sakuraba is insecure seems narrow minded to me. In my case, I was motivated to change his opinion simply because prejudiced attitudes are ugly and unwarranted.

    Anyways, it doesn't bother me to discover that he was staging a retaliation. I find it rather clever and amusing. (dick)

    Well, everyone surely has insecurities (including me I'm not in raging denial) so it would be pretty silly of me to actually criticise anyone for that, and I wasn't aiming to. My point was more that he seemed to have found a good way to play specifically on some common NF ones. The post certainly seemed to upset a lot of people: I find it hard to discern any other intent. The bit I bolded is unfortunately quite an easy trap for NFs to fall into as well - the desire to make the world a better place for all. The only kind of prejudice that can be sucessfully redressed by education is that which stems from pure ignorance. It may be the commonest kind, but there is also at least one more kind - that which comes from someone wanting to assert their individuality, of striking an attitude to make them stand out from the crowd by going against the prevailing view. As this attitude is not so much a result of ignorance, but a conscious choice by the person who makes it, I don't think that any form of argument or explanation is going to make them change their minds. It's more likely to confirm them in the belief that their contrary views are actually serving a useful purpose.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I believe that all of sakuraba's central claims are sound and would be satisfactory if they were rendered complete.
    LOL of course you would BW.

  3. #113
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    This one, misinformed person has an opinion. No need to get all defensive about NFs. We all know that NFs are good people. Anyone can be unhealthy and do any of those things the OP listed.
    Very few exceptional NFs are good people, most are not. Most just feel that they have virtue when they truly do not. This is merely their self-deception.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Very few exceptional NFs are good people, most are not. Most just feel that they have virtue when they truly do not. This is merely their self-deception.
    Well, that can be true. Kind of like when someone considers himself "Too smart to be ISTJ."

  5. #115
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I believe that all of sakuraba's central claims are sound and would be satisfactory if they were rendered complete. Those who protest are either hypocrites who do not wish to hear the truth about themselves or lack the analytical faculties necessary to properly understand his opening post. Both cases are unremarkable in this thread as we notice NFs were the ones who protested the most, and it is quite persuasive that because they tend not to be talented at logical reasoning, they would lack the analytical faculties necessary to understand the OP. It is also persuasive that NFs will not wish to hear the truth about themselves because they lack the ability to approach remarks about themselves from an objective standpoint, and that is precisely why they respond cantankerously to those who criticize them.
    Bluewing, you are committing the somewhat converse error of seeing the MBTI not as a somewhat imperfect, but useful model for understanding reality, but as something that is complete in itself. Then you analyse certain type functions, detatched from the human context which give them their significance, to their ultimate logical conclusions. The conclusions, however, are now so decontextualised that they bear little - I will not say no, as there is a certain amount of truth in there, but little relationship to the way in which people actually operate. You appear to be basing your whole chain of reasoning on an unacknowledged subjective belief of your own: that NF's are poor at abstract reasoning and incapable of being objective (In bold). This would only be correct if the functions a person had access to correlated strictly to the major processes expressed in their type, and was in practice limited to those. This is simply not the case; any one person has access to the full range of cognitive functions possible, as described by MBTI. In MBTI terms it is an indicator of maturity in an individual when they have developed their inferior functions to the degree where they are able to use them appropriately, according to circumstance; though their cognitive preference - the trait which the MBTI classifies, may indeed remain as it is. You have typed yourself as INTP - I can believe that, as a core weakness of the natural INTP process is often in data collection, where insufficient focus on obtaining accurate information through perceptive Ni may result in formulating a theory that though logically sound in itself, is lacking in external applicability through omission of key data. I would suggest going back to the drawing board on this one rather than continuing trying to view everything through the distorting prism of MBTI type ALONE.

  6. #116
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Well, that can be true. Kind of like when someone considers himself "Too smart to be ISTJ."
    Or "Too introverted" to be ENTP...
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    Or "Too introverted" to be ENTP...
    Oh, but you see, you err. Because if one is indeed too introverted to be ENTP, they are not. But the concept of too smart to be ISTJ doesn't compute, or follow.

  8. #118
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Oh, but you see, you err. Because if one is indeed too introverted to be ENTP, they are not. But the concept of too smart to be ISTJ doesn't compute, or follow.
    This logical gymnastics is too complex and difficult for my ISFP mind to handle...
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    This logical gymnastics is too complex and difficult for my ISFP mind to handle...
    Fear not, my friend, for you are not alone among any and all types. I shall handle the matter completely, from here on out.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Very few exceptional NFs are good people, most are not. Most just feel that they have virtue when they truly do not. This is merely their self-deception.


    What??? WHat does "good people" mean to you?

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