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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    Yeah, I was overgeneralizing, haha. biased.
    Ha ha...I do that too.

    I mean I think my ESFJ friend does tell the truth tactfully...if she actually values you, and she can encounter you when you're not saying or doing that thing.

    Like IRL I don't wear make-up every day. And when I do, you guys have seen how white I look in many of my photos...and she put a stop to that.

    One day when I was make-up free she said to me "you know, you have a nice color, you're not that white." I was like what? She was like "...your foundation. I think you have a medium skin tone. I don't know if you think you are whiter, or that whiter is pretty, but you have such nice color and you hide it." And I told her I was self-conscious about having a red undertone, and aside from the red undertone that I was pretty pale. And she said actually no you're not that pale, see? And she gave me some of her foundation.

    She was totally right.

  2. #32
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    It made me think of this quote from a while back, "Always question authority, especially YOUR OWN."

    Honestly, people who are convinced they have some superior edge on the truth, or that their truth must be everyones truth just irritate the shit out of me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    Also, brutal honesty is usually not Truth but truth relative and subjective to one's perspective. I usually find it laughable when people say, "I am just being brutally honest" like they are the definitive source of all things true.
    These are well said. The "unfettered truth" referred to in the OP is something that many people never stop to consider - that when someone asks the proverbial question, "Do I look fat?" that the answer is everything from "absolutely" to "not at all". The question, "Is my weight unhealthy" does have a measurable answer that a doctor can give, but the first question does not have a purely truthful answer. Taking the time to more deeply understand what is being asked, and responding to that is more responsible, insightful, and adult than assuming your interpretation of a question and your perception of a right answer are the only truth, which is infantile.

    Why do people think their opinions are truth? I don't get that.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  3. #33
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    ..God, this. It's with the people who outright state that they're "telling it like it is." "Can't handle the truth? Don't hang wit' me!"

    Please. Their perspective is as limited as everyone else's; they could stand to be humbled just a teensy little bit.
    I get the impression from those people that their comments regarding "brutal honesty" are a defense mechanism; they don't know how to cushion their statements, so they decide to idealize their honesty, to keep themselves from dwelling on the fact that constant "brutal honesty" keeps you from making friends and can leave you pretty much alone in the world. Like so many people who end up as social outcasts because of their own behavior, they decide to tell themselves that their status outside the norm (i.e. the norm of accommodating other people's sensibilities before you speak) makes them better than everyone else.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member fripping's Avatar
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    it's just as egotistical to believe you are the grand arbiter of other people's feelings as to believe you are the sole provider of truth. you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, i say. everybody's got their own self-illusions to protect one way or the other.

    it's better to say nothing or come as close as you can.

  5. #35
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Wait, we've been talking about how Fs are dishonest because they spare feelings. We haven't addressed the other half of the topic: that Js are brutally honest.

    Soo.. what about FJs? Are they just a logical contradiction?

    If so, then the T/F and J/P axes are not independent, and therefore the system itself has an obvious glaring flaw and is internally inconsistent--so the OP constructed upon an illogical foundation. QED, or something.

    The FJ's can be just as brutally honest. The difference is that the FJ will give you a hug afterwards.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  6. #36
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Why do people think their opinions are truth? I don't get that.
    My expression of my opinion is the truth, in that I am truthfully representing my opinion about something. If someone asks a subjective question, like whether something makes them look fat, or whether I like the taste of something they cooked, I usually have an opinion one way or another. I can relay that truthfully, lie about it, or decline to answer. I usually won't offer any opinion unsolicited, but if asked, I won't lie. This is what I mean by "truth" in such a situation.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    The FJ's can be just as brutally honest. The difference is that the FJ will give you a hug afterwards.
    Well, there's that, too!

    I'm just wondering whether the OP posits that FJs are honest and dishonest at the same time on exactly the same subject. Perhaps they are paradoxical. Or perhaps they're Schrodinger's honest.

    That's it. FJs exist as a wave-particle duality.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I get the impression from those people that their comments regarding "brutal honesty" are a defense mechanism; they don't know how to cushion their statements, so they decide to idealize their honesty, to keep themselves from dwelling on the fact that constant "brutal honesty" keeps you from making friends and can leave you pretty much alone in the world. Like so many people who end up as social outcasts because of their own behavior, they decide to tell themselves that their status outside the norm (i.e. the norm of accommodating other people's sensibilities before you speak) makes them better than everyone else.
    Pretty much

  8. #38
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Like so many people who end up as social outcasts because of their own behavior, they decide to tell themselves that their status outside the norm (i.e. the norm of accommodating other people's sensibilities before you speak) makes them better than everyone else.
    Just how far does this "norm of accommodation" go? It is reasonable to practice common courtesy/civility, but with some people it seems one is walking always on eggshells, which can be incredibly draining as well as inefficient. There has to be some happy medium between being a social outcast and Miss Congeniality. If I idealize anything in this dynamic, it is not so much my honesty as practicality and my sense of self.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #39
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    My expression of my opinion is the truth, in that I am truthfully representing my opinion about something. If someone asks a subjective question, like whether something makes them look fat, or whether I like the taste of something they cooked, I usually have an opinion one way or another. I can relay that truthfully, lie about it, or decline to answer. I usually won't offer any opinion unsolicited, but if asked, I won't lie. This is what I mean by "truth" in such a situation.
    That makes sense, but what if you have several opinions about subjective topics depending on which vantage point you view it from? I find I sometimes don't have a clear sense of one opinion especially for subjective discussions. I do have some strong opinions about topics that can be more readily verified outside the context of myself. If there is external data demonstrating certain facts, it bothers me when either myself or others disregard this. When it comes to my opinion on the appearance of others, or whether or not they have done something "wrong", I typically do not have a single, focused, certain opinion. If it is about perception then I can have several "opinions". If it is a topic I am not certain of, but know that it could be demonstrated externally with more information, then I think in terms of likelihoods or percentages.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  10. #40
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    I am typically honest to a fault....that I regret it later but i usually put a complimentary truth in there also. I value honesty over social practicality which puts in trouble sometimes.

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