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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Oh, yeah; me, too--I can relate to that whole shebang. When I'm in a cheerful mood, it's easier for me to "fake" or at least exaggerate a positive attitude toward other people.

    Is it right? Maybe not, but here's some balls-out truth: a bit of 'politicking' is kinda necessary in this world.

    I try my damndest not to do so with the people who are at all close to me, but sometimes it's inevitable. "I'm fine" is a way for me to say "I'm still processing something negative and I'd rather you not pry, thanks!" But often they end up picking up that that's what "I'm fine" means--or, even better, I can just outright state the latter because I can eventually trust that they actually won't pry. Wow, amazing!
    That's why I have such a land mine disposition around here sometimes. If you brighten my day I'll let you know with a positive response. I'm not going to try to make you think you had more of a positive effect on me than you did.

    This is one of the places I can try to be completely honest with myself, and I figure I might as well be honest with you as well.

  2. #22
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    I make it a policy of mine not to lie, but who's to say my truth is more valid than your truth. Some times it's better to say nothing at all, then disengage brain and engage mouth.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #23
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Also, there are usually ways to be diplomatic, which is typically a more effective way to communicate the same damn message.
    This is really the crux of the matter.

  4. #24
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    I think the OP is spot on.

    Hence the shit storm.

  5. #25
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    Wait, we've been talking about how Fs are dishonest because they spare feelings. We haven't addressed the other half of the topic: that Js are brutally honest.

    Soo.. what about FJs? Are they just a logical contradiction?

    If so, then the T/F and J/P axes are not independent, and therefore the system itself has an obvious glaring flaw and is internally inconsistent--so the OP constructed upon an illogical foundation. QED, or something.


  6. #26
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yupitsme View Post
    Is this about right?

    BTW most people dont like me especially Fs because I let it fly as a public service because I think its noble to speak the unfettered truth.

    It is not received well. This frustrates me. I have been thick about it but bullshitting for the sake of feelings seems so insulting and disrepsectful.

    This is my quandry.

    Does anyone feel for me or am I just another unfeeling bastard in your opinion?
    I suppose FJ's are the contradiction to the rule here.

    We can give the truth in an honest way that is diplomatic and actually comprehended by the person we're trying to communicate with. It's like, why else are you sharing the information? You do wish to actually have your information resonate, correct? I'd hope so, otherwise you're merely talking at people and assaulting them with words..
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  7. #27
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    No. I think Fe users are more likely to twist the truth to spare people's feelings. But people of various types could lie for other reasons, like Se and Te users probably lie for their own advantage, for example. Not as as general rule, but that would be more of an Se or Te motive to lie. It would be an Fe motive to lie to spare feelings or manipulate relationships to a strong degree.

    Then Te users are often brutally honest. But then again STPs tend to be as well, so following this logic Se would also be brutally honest, making ESFPs and ENTJs some of the most brutal people on the face of the earth, potentially.

    Hey that actually makes sense because I can really be brutal sometimes, but because I have Fi before Te it softens it, so it only happens sometimes.

    It's definitely not an F or J thing.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    I suppose FJ's are the contradiction to the rule here.

    We can give the truth in an honest way that is diplomatic and actually comprehended by the person we're trying to communicate with. It's like, why else are you sharing the information? You do wish to actually have your information resonate, correct? I'd hope so, otherwise you're merely talking at people and assaulting them with words..
    I think this is definitely a talent of Fe users who are intelligent and ethical enough to reason out to not lie, but to be honest with the most effective and harmonious communication possible.

    Not all FJs though. I do think some FJs do just say "yes that dress looks great on you" just so you won't be hurt. My ESFJ friend has admitted even if she thinks things she won't say them, like if she thinks something looks bad, she will actually let someone leave the house with it on, but tell them later after they take it off. Which to me is like WTF, that's mean, but in her mind it's kinder to share such information when the person isn't actually wearing the item, for example. Her ISTP son also says that she will "say anything" looks good.

    She's very intelligent too, I just don't think it's part of her ethical value system to be brutally honest with tact in every situation, but I can definitely see this with other FJs I've encountered.

    And I think my ESFJ ex used to just lie his ass off sometimes, unless he felt like twisting the knife into someone, and then would talk about them behind their backs to me or his mom.

  9. #29
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think this is definitely a talent of Fe users who are intelligent and ethical enough to reason out to not lie, but to be honest with the most effective and harmonious communication possible.

    Not all FJs though. I do think some FJs do just say "yes that dress looks great on you" just so you won't be hurt. My ESFJ friend has admitted even if she thinks things she won't say them, like if she thinks something looks bad, she will actually let someone leave the house with it on, but tell them later after they take it off. Which to me is like WTF, that's mean, but in her mind it's kinder to share such information when the person isn't actually wearing the item, for example. Her ISTP son also says that she will "say anything" looks good.

    She's very intelligent too, I just don't think it's part of her ethical value system to be brutally honest with tact in every situation, but I can definitely see this with other FJs I've encountered.

    And I think my ESFJ ex used to just lie his ass off sometimes, unless he felt like twisting the knife into someone, and then would talk about them behind their backs to me or his mom.
    Yeah, I was overgeneralizing, haha. biased.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htVkGx4_GqA"]The Truth[/YOUTUBE]

    I'm tired of these: I-tell-it-like-it-is-people, who seem to think that they are on a reality show or something.

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