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  1. #11
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    Just adding some ancedotal observations: we've had several people at INTPc retype themselves as INFJ over the years once they introspect some more.

  2. #12
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Again from observations, more often it's male INFJs who mistype themselves as INTJs, although I've seen a couple of female INFJs do the same. Also observational, female INFJs will usually amend their mistyping but more often, male INFJs deny.

  3. #13
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    I’ve never really wondered if I’m NT because the descriptions have never really resonated much, but I test as NT all the time. Even on the ‘official’ mbti test, my F/T was practically flush.


    Quote Originally Posted by SubtleFighter View Post
    One thing to consider is how much you’re interested in people. I mean either simply figuring people out, or in helping others out. Also, consider how many times you enter a room and get a feel for the emotions in the room, and the relationships of the people in the room to each other and to yourself. These are things that INFJs do all the time. I don’t know any INTPs, but my Ti-dom brother (ISTP) is definitely less interested in these things than I am. For me, it’s like automatic to do this.
    I’ve noticed that INTJs seem to be interested in people, but it’s like ‘in theory’ or indirectly. They’re drawn to learning about personality types- all 3 NTJs I’ve known were very interested in typology- yet don’t really want to deal with the messy application.

    Quote Originally Posted by kissmyasthma View Post
    I've shied away from a lot of that because it involved a lot of stress. And some of the people I stood up for ended up treating me badly, in the end.
    ^This sorta smacks of more INFJ than INTJ because INTJs seem more like islands to me in this regard.

    I think maybe one effective way to tell the difference is- because everyone tends to project their worldview a little bit onto others, it’s kinda unavoidable- whether or not your feelings get hurt by others’ indifference. I think that a lot of INFJs struggle with juggling between “it’s okay if the other person didn’t notice they hurt my feelings because that happens sometimes and no one is perfect” and “I don’t understand, I would have noticed if I hurt someone’s feelings like that” points of view. Whereas INTJs may experience “that person hurt my feelings” without any consequent expectations, like they don’t have any internal struggle about what the other person ‘should’ have noticed. It’s not what they’re drawn to paying attention to, so they won’t be distracted by the lack of it in others- but for an INFJ that lack can trip all sorts of silent alarms about disrespect (which we often try not to get worked up about because anything is possible, but it still incites a kind of struggle that flies just below INTJ radar).

    Quote Originally Posted by kissmyasthma View Post
    Well, I avoid crying in front of other people altogether, so I haven't been in many situations where a friend talked me through my own feelings...I don't want to let them see that side of me. I don't mind being a shoulder to cry on, but the idea of going to someone else to cry on their shoulder, or even unintentionally losing it around them, is kind of terrifying to me. It's been impossible to avoid crying around my immediate family, but even then I prefer to be alone. Whenever I do talk about my doubts, insecurities, etc. I usually use sarcasm as a shield, or joke about it, or use a sort of frank deadpan to disguise how upset it might make me.
    I’m very much this way, and I’ve heard other INFJs say something along these lines before- that it seems like we can be good at helping other people out of ruts, but it isn’t as easy for others to help us out in the same way. It just seems to me like so many of the things people have to say are formulaic/cliché and ineffective- and then I feel even worse because I’m still in the rut AND I’m feeling guilt about their ‘help’ not actually helping- so I avoid the situation all together and try to work things out on my own.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  4. #14
    Senior Member SubtleFighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I’ve noticed that INTJs seem to be interested in people, but it’s like ‘in theory’ or indirectly. They’re drawn to learning about personality types- all 3 NTJs I’ve known were very interested in typology- yet don’t really want to deal with the messy application.
    I see what you're saying. I guess what I was trying to say was that while NTs would generally more study people the way they'd study rock densities, it's more of an integral part of the nature of INFJs to do this. I would seriously doubt someone saying they're INFJ if they're not automatically drawn to studying people, even without consciously thinking about it.
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear."--Ambrose Redmoon

    . . . metamorphosing . . .

  5. #15
    Senior Member SubtleFighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissmyasthma View Post
    That's actually been one of my biggest stumbling blocks, because I can't seem to find good descriptions of Ni? I don't relate to the sort of "psychic" vibe the function seems to imply...but the only times I can fully utilize the Ne "brainstorming" seems to be when I'm worrying about all the things that can go wrong in a situation.

    For what it's worth, I also seem to use Ne mostly for thinking up negative possibilities. That may be an indication of it being in your shadow functions?

    I can't comment on how INTP you seem since I don't know any IRL, but I second Z Buck that what you've said in this thread seems INFJ.

    I'm not sure of how "psychic" you think Ni is, as in knowing winning lottery numbers or something, but that's definitely not it (there are some people who believe this, BTW). It's more that Ni is pretty future-focused. It's like . . . over the course of a lifetime, someone using Ni takes in all the information that they've ever received or encountered through study or through living life (Se data) and then tries to make universal principles out of it. Then they use these principles when they encounter what's happening now to try to figure out what will most likely happen in the future, and using what's happening now to add to their universal principles.

    For an example of Ni principles, take the song "Affirmation" by Savage Garden (one of my favorite bands), lyrics written by Darren Hayes (who I believe to be ENFJ). One line says "I believe that junk food tastes so good because it's bad for you." The principle: things that are bad for you generally seem more fun/desirable because of the person believing they're bad for them. So if someone using Ni believes this principle to be true, then when they're with someone else who's trying to decide between two things that are otherwise equal but one they believe is healthy and the other less than healthy (doesn't have to be food-related at all), the Ni-user will probably conclude that this other person will be naturally drawn to what they believe is unhealthy (although whether the person actually chooses this unhealthy thing is far more complicated).

    Or, for instance, if I'm with a good friend who I've known for years, I've accumulated information over the years about what things they're likely to do when and under what circumstances. So when certain circumstances come up, it's almost an unconscious process that I will get hunches saying "This person is likely to do ____ because of being in these circumstances." But the hunch is based on info of what this person has done over the years; it's not out of nowhere.

    I understand how Ne is supposed to be like brainstorming, so as an analogy...if Ne use is like being faced with a problem or question and then coming up with all sorts of answers and ideas as a response that jump off one another, then is Ni use like seeing one clear answer relatively quickly, and then pulling things from outside in to further develop it?
    For Ni, it is like one hunch comes up. But there two caveats: there's not always a hunch. There isn't always enough accumulated "Se data" or principles built up for every situation, and sometimes I get no hunch at all even if I really, really want one! The other caveat is that sometimes I'll see a couple likely scenarios that will happen because of a couple pieces of information that I don't have. Sometimes I'll think things like: "If this person is doing this for reason X, then they will mostly likely do action A. But if they're actually doing it for reason Y, then they will most likely do action B." And the disparity in my thinking is because of not having the information of whether they're doing it for reason X or Y. But it's not a million and one possibilities.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "pulling things in from the outside to further develop it." It's more like if I get an Ni hunch, I will analyze it further in my own head, mostly trying to make it more clear to myself. Sometimes it will be a really vague notion, and I'll need to wait for it to become more clear. Or sometimes it's a clear notion, but the reasoning behind it is not so clear (not at all that it's not there or not valid, it's just that it's less in focus), and so I'll work on trying to make the reasoning more clear (using Ti) so that I can explain it to others if asked.

    [Edit] I want to add too that Ni isn't all about finding "one possibility." Since it's a perceiving function, it's always working to refine itself. And looking at multiple perspectives is also a big part of what Ni is. It's like looking at something through different lenses and believing that all of these lenses are valid and needed in order to see the complete picture. For instance, if you're looking at a novel, you might examine it through the perspective of characters, and then through setting, and then through theme, etc. Or if you're an English major, it might be through gender theory, New Criticism, deconstruction of binaries, etc. Someone using Ni would believe that all of these perspectives (and many others) are needed to fully understand the novel (the object) completely, and they could shift talking from one perspective to another perspective and still feel like they're still talking about the same whole object, even if one perspective seems to contradict the other. But this is different than multiple possibilities.

    Here is a link to a copy of an article that's probably my favorite description of what Ni is. I would have linked directly to the article, but it seems like it doesn't exist anymore.

    Here is a link to a discussion on this site that some have recommended as a good description of Ni.

    Here is a thread focused on the differences of Ne/Ni that has some good posts in it.

    I hope this helps!
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear."--Ambrose Redmoon

    . . . metamorphosing . . .

  6. #16
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    I vascillated between NT and NF for quite a while, and I definitely come across as rational. My iterative self-discovery, "what's my freakin' type" thread, and other confirmations (e.g. when I slap "INFJ" on as a type and I get a bunch of reps that say "yeah that sounds about right") have steered me toward INFJ.


  7. #17
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    It's probably the Ti. People sometimes like to insist I'm INTJ.

  8. #18
    Senior Member pmj85's Avatar
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    INFJ here. I've tested as INTJ on numerous occasions (usually whilst NiTi-ing the shit out of something).

  9. #19
    Member kissmyasthma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubtleFighter View Post
    I'm not sure of how "psychic" you think Ni is, as in knowing winning lottery numbers or something, but that's definitely not it (there are some people who believe this, BTW). It's more that Ni is pretty future-focused. It's like . . . over the course of a lifetime, someone using Ni takes in all the information that they've ever received or encountered through study or through living life (Se data) and then tries to make universal principles out of it. Then they use these principles when they encounter what's happening now to try to figure out what will most likely happen in the future, and using what's happening now to add to their universal principles.

    For an example of Ni principles, take the song "Affirmation" by Savage Garden (one of my favorite bands), lyrics written by Darren Hayes (who I believe to be ENFJ). One line says "I believe that junk food tastes so good because it's bad for you." The principle: things that are bad for you generally seem more fun/desirable because of the person believing they're bad for them. So if someone using Ni believes this principle to be true, then when they're with someone else who's trying to decide between two things that are otherwise equal but one they believe is healthy and the other less than healthy (doesn't have to be food-related at all), the Ni-user will probably conclude that this other person will be naturally drawn to what they believe is unhealthy (although whether the person actually chooses this unhealthy thing is far more complicated).

    Or, for instance, if I'm with a good friend who I've known for years, I've accumulated information over the years about what things they're likely to do when and under what circumstances. So when certain circumstances come up, it's almost an unconscious process that I will get hunches saying "This person is likely to do ____ because of being in these circumstances." But the hunch is based on info of what this person has done over the years; it's not out of nowhere.
    Yeah, that definitely makes more sense!

    Quote Originally Posted by SubtleFighter View Post
    For Ni, it is like one hunch comes up. But there two caveats: there's not always a hunch. There isn't always enough accumulated "Se data" or principles built up for every situation, and sometimes I get no hunch at all even if I really, really want one! The other caveat is that sometimes I'll see a couple likely scenarios that will happen because of a couple pieces of information that I don't have. Sometimes I'll think things like: "If this person is doing this for reason X, then they will mostly likely do action A. But if they're actually doing it for reason Y, then they will most likely do action B." And the disparity in my thinking is because of not having the information of whether they're doing it for reason X or Y. But it's not a million and one possibilities.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "pulling things in from the outside to further develop it." It's more like if I get an Ni hunch, I will analyze it further in my own head, mostly trying to make it more clear to myself. Sometimes it will be a really vague notion, and I'll need to wait for it to become more clear. Or sometimes it's a clear notion, but the reasoning behind it is not so clear (not at all that it's not there or not valid, it's just that it's less in focus), and so I'll work on trying to make the reasoning more clear (using Ti) so that I can explain it to others if asked.
    This definitely sounds like the way I go about solving a problem or finding the answer to a question. Is what you're describing at all like getting a sense of an answer or a solution, and then working your way backwards through it with Ti (or with Fe)?

    Quote Originally Posted by SubtleFighter View Post
    [Edit] I want to add too that Ni isn't all about finding "one possibility." Since it's a perceiving function, it's always working to refine itself. And looking at multiple perspectives is also a big part of what Ni is. It's like looking at something through different lenses and believing that all of these lenses are valid and needed in order to see the complete picture. For instance, if you're looking at a novel, you might examine it through the perspective of characters, and then through setting, and then through theme, etc. Or if you're an English major, it might be through gender theory, New Criticism, deconstruction of binaries, etc. Someone using Ni would believe that all of these perspectives (and many others) are needed to fully understand the novel (the object) completely, and they could shift talking from one perspective to another perspective and still feel like they're still talking about the same whole object, even if one perspective seems to contradict the other. But this is different than multiple possibilities.
    Thanks for the English Major take on it! That's actually the kind of thinking and studying that has attracted me to studying English and History in college. So Ni looks at one object through multiple perspectives, and (along with Ti?) pinpoints how each part of the object is essential to the whole?

    Quote Originally Posted by SubtleFighter View Post
    Here is a link to a copy of an article that's probably my favorite description of what Ni is. I would have linked directly to the article, but it seems like it doesn't exist anymore.

    Here is a link to a discussion on this site that some have recommended as a good description of Ni.

    Here is a thread focused on the differences of Ne/Ni that has some good posts in it.

    I hope this helps!
    Yes indeed!

  10. #20
    Senior Member SubtleFighter's Avatar
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    I'm glad this helped!

    Quote Originally Posted by kissmyasthma View Post
    This definitely sounds like the way I go about solving a problem or finding the answer to a question. Is what you're describing at all like getting a sense of an answer or a solution, and then working your way backwards through it with Ti (or with Fe)?
    Yes, that's what I mean. It's like I get answer/hunch first, and then I have to go back and try to make the logic of where it came from clearer. In other threads, other Ni-doms on this site have said they work the same way.


    Thanks for the English Major take on it! That's actually the kind of thinking and studying that has attracted me to studying English and History in college. So Ni looks at one object through multiple perspectives, and (along with Ti?) pinpoints how each part of the object is essential to the whole?
    It's that all the perspectives are correct and are needed to make up the whole. Another example is to ask the question if someone who is 30 years old is either old or young. If you look at it from the perspective of a 15-year-old, yes, they're old. But if you look at it from the perspective of someone who is 60? They're young. So, the question is, are they old or young? They're both. There is no definitive "they are old" or "they are young." That's Ni. The breaking up an object into different parts sounds more Ti.

    So basically, I'm agreeing with you, but sometimes words mean different things to different people, so I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

    And I agree with you about English and history! I love English for that reason, and when we were doing the lit theory "New Historicism," which is combining looking at history in an Ni-way ('there is no one definitive way of looking at history') and looking at novels in an Ni-way, I went nuts
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear."--Ambrose Redmoon

    . . . metamorphosing . . .

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