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  1. #21
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegrayvapour View Post
    What about asking me, "Isn't there an older man who is looking for a younger, yet stable girlfriend?"
    Depends on context and how she says it. If she said it with genuine frustration, as if she was talking to one of her girlfriends, or if she was referring to a specific guy such as her ex or the guy with the cute accent, then it doesn't mean anything. If she said it with a knowing and flirty glance, then she was throwing some kindling down and seeing if you could provide a spark.

    Anyways, it looks like you have your answer. I'm sorry it didn't go as you had hoped.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegrayvapour View Post
    oh my god.

    I'm in the friendzone.


    What is "the friend zone"?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegrayvapour View Post
    Sooo.. a mutual friend has been hinting that she knows something is going on between me and the ENFJ. I mentioned that I was planning to talk to her soon and our friend told me not to. She said she didn't think I would get the answer I am hoping for: whatever that means. She said the ENFJ is overwhelmed and doesn't know what to do about it/ doesn't like to say no, etc. I completely understand this, of course.

    So my new question is: what would an ENFJ appreciate in this situation? Would most want me to talk to them and clear the air without obligating them to say how they feel or should I just gently pull back a bit and respectfully give it some space; allowing it to be a great friendship?
    A similar thing happened to me: we were friends/coworkers with a mutual friend kind of in-between. Anyway, after I got the impression from the go-between I should pack in my affections for her, I showed her no special attention, leaning towards being slightly aloof. Then when I couldn't help but come into close contact with her I acted VERY light and cheery, and probably dialed up my humorous banter a few notches, but cut all my flirty jokes out of the act. I acted as if nothing had happened, and she seemed kind of surprised at first, but then quickly took the cue (which I think ENFJ's are good with) by acting very pleasantly, which seemed almost like an indirect: "THANK YOU, I soooo didn't want this to get weird and force me to get all awkward and conflicty". There was this brief moment where this understanding/sympathetic smile crossed her face, and I think we both knew what was happening and we were both cool with it. We are still good friends to this day, and there is no trace of weirdness left (that I've noticed) going forward.

    I don't know if that will happen for you, but I hope my experience helps. I chose to play to the ENFJ's strengths and keep things smooth. And I got over it after a while.

  4. #24
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegrayvapour View Post
    oh my god.

    I'm in the friendzone.
    I really fucking hate the term "friend zone" it's the term "nice guys" use when they're pissed off that sexual/romantic advances don't go their way, like that being nice justifies a reward at the end. (just my personal view)

    Why are you so surprised that you are in the "friend zone" when you have been nothing but a friend for the durtion of the relatonship? Do you think she owes it to you to go out with you because you've been nice to her and you guys have been hanging out?

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  5. #25
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    I really doubt platonic friends turn romantic very often. There needs to be some obvious chemistry from the beginning IMO.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #26
    Junior Member thegrayvapour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    What is "the friend zone"?
    I'll assume you're kidding. It's probably a lot easier to keep out of this sort of situation when the two people don't share an extraverted intuition funtion and fear of rejection. Two people reading between the lines and not talking about it? Bah!

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    A similar thing happened to me...

    ...I acted as if nothing had happened, and she seemed kind of surprised at first, but then quickly took the cue (which I think ENFJ's are good with) by acting very pleasantly, which seemed almost like an indirect: "THANK YOU, I soooo didn't want this to get weird and force me to get all awkward and conflicty". There was this brief moment where this understanding/sympathetic smile crossed her face, and I think we both knew what was happening and we were both cool with it. We are still good friends to this day, and there is no trace of weirdness left (that I've noticed) going forward.

    I don't know if that will happen for you, but I hope my experience helps. I chose to play to the ENFJ's strengths and keep things smooth. And I got over it after a while.
    Thank you for sharing that. It's good to hear a story with a selfless and positive outcome.

    I don't want it to be all "awkward and conflicty" either. It's a great friendship, and I'm just wishing I could turn off the chemical processes in my brain that are making it more difficult to be a good friend. I also want to avoid making her feel rejected as a friend, which will happen if I suddenly start being distant without explanation. Sure, she might understand intuitively, but it has the potential of being more damaging if I don't articulate. Besides, it's good for me to talk about these kinds of things. It'll help me get over it and avoid misunderstanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    I really fucking hate the term "friend zone" it's the term "nice guys" use when they're pissed off that sexual/romantic advances don't go their way, like that being nice justifies a reward at the end. (just my personal view)

    Why are you so surprised that you are in the "friend zone" when you have been nothing but a friend for the durtion of the relatonship? Do you think she owes it to you to go out with you because you've been nice to her and you guys have been hanging out?
    I know, that term has a bit of baggage, huh? I'll refrain from using it, except for in jest.

    I hate to think that I might be one of those "nice guys". I'm not sure if I am. Maybe questioning it disqualifies me. I have to take comfort in the fact that my actions and words are intentionally not manipulative - why would I want to pursue a relationship with someone who is easily duped?

    It's more innocent than that. We are good friends. I developed feelings for her. I'm aware that these feelings compromise my ability to treat her in a way consistant with being a good friend, to the point that I'm willing to stifle my romantic/sexual advances. This is pretty easy for me, as sex is one of the last things I'm looking for. It's still on the list, but I need to develop emotional intimacy with someone before I even start thinking about it. Which makes me a prime candidate for being in a relationship that begins as platonic and then I develop "other" feelings. (Joseph Heller?) When those romantic feelings are not mutual... ...friend zone. I'm not bitter about it at all, but can't say I'm not familiar.

    So, no. I don't think she owes me. That would be petty and crude. I owe her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    I really doubt platonic friends turn romantic very often. There needs to be some obvious chemistry from the beginning IMO.
    I wholeheartedly agree. It must not happen very often. Some people say they married their best friend. Either they are (very sweet) liars, developed a strong friendship with their sex partner, or it really is possible.

    I don't need it to happen often. Just once would be enough for me as I do not practice polygamy. I'll probably never give up on this approach to relationships. It seems to be a pretty good way to ensure that I have foundational things in common with someone who may/may not be attracted to me; as opposed to developing a romantic/sexual relationship with someone I might/might not like to spend my day to day life with. Emotional intimacy is higher on my list of priorities, and developing it looks more like friendship than fucking in my INFP world.

    Sometimes, when people find a lost object, they say, "I found it in the last place I looked!" Of course they did. It would be insane to keep looking after you found it. Yogi Berra said, "I knew the record would stand until it was broken."

    This, for better or worse, describes my views. It won't happen until it does.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegrayvapour View Post
    I'll assume you're kidding.
    No, seriously. Humor me if you will.

    Explain to me what the friend zone is.

    I hear people talking about it but I don't get it.

  8. #28
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegrayvapour View Post
    I'll assume you're kidding. It's probably a lot easier to keep out of this sort of situation when the two people don't share an extraverted intuition funtion and fear of rejection. Two people reading between the lines and not talking about it? Bah!


    Thank you for sharing that. It's good to hear a story with a selfless and positive outcome.

    I don't want it to be all "awkward and conflicty" either. It's a great friendship, and I'm just wishing I could turn off the chemical processes in my brain that are making it more difficult to be a good friend. I also want to avoid making her feel rejected as a friend, which will happen if I suddenly start being distant without explanation. Sure, she might understand intuitively, but it has the potential of being more damaging if I don't articulate. Besides, it's good for me to talk about these kinds of things. It'll help me get over it and avoid misunderstanding.


    I know, that term has a bit of baggage, huh? I'll refrain from using it, except for in jest.

    I hate to think that I might be one of those "nice guys". I'm not sure if I am. Maybe questioning it disqualifies me. I have to take comfort in the fact that my actions and words are intentionally not manipulative - why would I want to pursue a relationship with someone who is easily duped?

    It's more innocent than that. We are good friends. I developed feelings for her. I'm aware that these feelings compromise my ability to treat her in a way consistant with being a good friend, to the point that I'm willing to stifle my romantic/sexual advances. This is pretty easy for me, as sex is one of the last things I'm looking for. It's still on the list, but I need to develop emotional intimacy with someone before I even start thinking about it. Which makes me a prime candidate for being in a relationship that begins as platonic and then I develop "other" feelings. (Joseph Heller?) When those romantic feelings are not mutual... ...friend zone. I'm not bitter about it at all, but can't say I'm not familiar.

    So, no. I don't think she owes me. That would be petty and crude. I owe her.


    I wholeheartedly agree. It must not happen very often. Some people say they married their best friend. Either they are (very sweet) liars, developed a strong friendship with their sex partner, or it really is possible.

    I don't need it to happen often. Just once would be enough for me as I do not practice polygamy. I'll probably never give up on this approach to relationships. It seems to be a pretty good way to ensure that I have foundational things in common with someone who may/may not be attracted to me; as opposed to developing a romantic/sexual relationship with someone I might/might not like to spend my day to day life with. Emotional intimacy is higher on my list of priorities, and developing it looks more like friendship than fucking in my INFP world.

    Sometimes, when people find a lost object, they say, "I found it in the last place I looked!" Of course they did. It would be insane to keep looking after you found it. Yogi Berra said, "I knew the record would stand until it was broken."

    This, for better or worse, describes my views. It won't happen until it does.

    I'm confused. Do you see her only as a friend, or not.

    And, if not, you are saying you want to go backwards and erase the romantic feelings so that you can be friends first?
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  9. #29
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegrayvapour View Post
    I know, that term has a bit of baggage, huh? I'll refrain from using it, except for in jest.

    I hate to think that I might be one of those "nice guys". I'm not sure if I am. Maybe questioning it disqualifies me. I have to take comfort in the fact that my actions and words are intentionally not manipulative - why would I want to pursue a relationship with someone who is easily duped?

    It's more innocent than that. We are good friends. I developed feelings for her. I'm aware that these feelings compromise my ability to treat her in a way consistant with being a good friend, to the point that I'm willing to stifle my romantic/sexual advances. This is pretty easy for me, as sex is one of the last things I'm looking for. It's still on the list, but I need to develop emotional intimacy with someone before I even start thinking about it. Which makes me a prime candidate for being in a relationship that begins as platonic and then I develop "other" feelings. (Joseph Heller?) When those romantic feelings are not mutual... ...friend zone. I'm not bitter about it at all, but can't say I'm not familiar.

    So, no. I don't think she owes me. That would be petty and crude. I owe her.
    Okay, well, yay. I guess I shouldn’t question the motives of an INFP, but you know, some phrases just get my hackles up.

    I had the best reply all written out, then accidentally pressed the “back” button and lost the lot. MOTHERFUCKING BOLLOCKS.

    Anyway, I can totally understand falling for a friend, and I think that ideally your partner should be your best friend, a lot of time friendship boundaries and intimacies can be blurred when gender comes into play. Which is where things get tricky. I’ve had my share of crushes on friends and some of those have developed into something more, but it’s always happened pretty quickly and earlyish on in the friendship. Anything where a long term platonic base has been established has (in my experience) lead to a lopsided development of feelings (either on my behalf or theirs).

    Now, because I am a wimp, I never really act on the long term ones, preferring to keep the established friendship there and thinking about how sad it would be if there was a break up and I didn’t get to have one of my closest friends anymore (Yes I am a selfish cow, I’m happy to admit it).

    And sadly I have to admit, while there never has been any intention to slowly drop contact with friends who have professed feelings, where I haven’t had any it tends to happen anyway, everything is all fine for a month or two after and then it just, I don’t know dwindles off and away. Which is sad, and why I tend to keep my mouth shut about things like that.

    But yeah, it’s hard to tell where a girl’s head is at without talking to her about it.

    Anyway my TL;DR response is that falling for friends can be really hard and sucky. And sometimes there is no happy solution.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  10. #30
    Junior Member thegrayvapour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I'm confused. Do you see her only as a friend, or not.

    And, if not, you are saying you want to go backwards and erase the romantic feelings so that you can be friends first?
    I'll try to be succinct.

    We are/were friends first.

    At present, I have an elevated heart rate, butterflies in my stomach and the little hairs standing up on the back of my neck when I'm around her. This, along the PG- rated admiration I've had for her for months. I see her as a friend that I would like to kiss on the mouth.

    I don't think this is wise for now. I haven't thought of going backwards, because that is not possible. I don't have the ability to erase feelings, only manage them with actions in the future. It's difficult to manage my those emotions when we spend so much time together, but if I suddenly get distant, she will misunderstand. So I'm going to talk to her.

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