• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[INFJ] ENFPs or INFPs- Which are Better for INTJs?

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
The Se mindset is not any less biased than another. Se types may be called "realists", but this is based on the bias that reality is the external, physical world experienced via the senses & acquired facts. Are not other types conscious of other aspects of reality, and are these aspects not just as significant? Each type's preference is their filter for seeing reality, and that filter tends to make them focus on certain areas of reality more than others (ie. Se - 5 senses in the moment vs Fi - fundamental moral/aesthetic value outside of external cultural/time bounds), giving them an incomplete view. Jung said something to the effect that ALL of the functions are required to see reality as it is, which no one has in equal measure, and so everyone is prone to massive bias & this creates misunderstanding with people, but can also mean we need others to balance us out with their take on reality.

Is a Se-dom mind more capable of balancing a Ni-dom mind? Well, if you're a socionics fan, yes, because their idea of compatibility is making up for those "blind spots"; similar idea with the anima/animus theory (getting in touch with the repressed parts, blah blah blah).

On the other hand, compatibility can also be a matter of happiness & being on the same page so as to accomplish things & not constantly be battling out over opposite takes on life, etc.

The advantage of an ExFP is they will pursue, so the INTJ can return to Ni-Te equilibrium in the meantime, after tert Fi settles down a bit. I think it's a rude awakening for the ExFP when the Te face goes back on though (I see this in threads a lot too; the previously coy, mysterious INTJ is now being an ass to the ExFP who is all hurt about it; and they seem to get hurt more easily than IxFPs). I've seen something similar with my ESFP sister & the many ISTJs she's dated; it's all fine & dandy until the ISTJ has a will of his own again.

Will get to the above later.

You lost me at "Se is still biased" because, yes, obviously I know that.

There were other parts further down that were good, but I really want to respond immediately to this last paragraph.

Anyhow, what I think INFP will call BS on is emotional obtuseness; and while an ExFP may easily do the same, I think INFPs are better at shaming people effectively :devil:. ExFPs go off with eloquent rants that inform people of what-is-what, but INFPs make simple quiet statements and/or ask thought-provoking questions. The latter gets dismissed a lot by T types as emotionalism, whereas the former can carry more weight because it's expressed with lines of reasoning over making people "see".

This is all phenomenal.

This is the kind of stuff I was looking for.

The difference then is - INFPs are dominant RATIONAL types, but INTJs are not & neither are ExFPs. This brings a different kind of balance. When it comes to rational reasoning, I think INFPs have an edge on ExFPs, although ExFPs are no doubt more persuasive in other ways.

This, however, is crap.

Jung's use of rational/irrational is the most retarded thing I've found in all of typology.

Yes, ENTPs and INTJs are "irrational" types, entirely because of their dominant function.

Keirsey (who I'm no fan of either) put them in "The Rational" temperament for no good reason whatsoever.

:rolleyes:
 

xenaprincess

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
4,948
MBTI Type
infp
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
(re INTJ's):
Te isn't that good at dealing with people outside of a "work together" context, but the tert/inf Fi eventually teaches us Te types to "just be nice to everyone, no matter what, because it's way more effective than being an @$$hole."

haha. very true.
my INTJ is a terror on the roads. There are right ways of doing things and wrong ways. He claims he'd be a great traffic cop but we both know he'd have a conniption fit the first day.

Thanks for the communication advice, too. I do believe you are correct, sir! :D

I think some INTJs forget Te in courting because fweelings overwhelm them, and with Fi, that means withdrawing & not expressing them. That's pretty much what all INTJ threads about dating sound like - "OMG, I like this girl & I don't know what to dooooo! I'm just going to post here & pine away & analyze her actions into infinity because I don't know how to interpret things like FWEELINGS, and in the meantime she will lose interest & I'll have lost my chance." It's a Ni-Fi paranoid, confuzzled loop. They need to turn the Te back on - identify the objective, make a plan, carry it out, WIN.

:yim_rolling_on_the_

I loved OrangeAppled's post. haha.
 
R

RDF

Guest
[...]The INFP just has to channel Johnny Depp & not Mr. Rogers. [...]

Here is me channeling Johnny Depp:

10557356-jonny-depp-in-the-pirates-of-the-caribbean.jpg


:wink:
 

chickpea

perfect person
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,729
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
i didn't read most of the thread, but are we supposed to be fighting for the love of the intj population? i will gladly surrender that to the enfps.
 

Mia.

New member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
821
haha. very true.
my INTJ is a terror on the roads. There are right ways of doing things and wrong ways. He claims he'd be a great traffic cop but we both know he'd have a conniption fit the first day.

Despite the obvious pain in the tuckus they create for all involved, I find TJ conniption fits hysterically adorable.
 

CreativeCait

New member
Joined
May 18, 2012
Messages
80
MBTI Type
PING
Well, we can’t be twins after all, and this is one area where we differ I think. Maybe enneagram influences this? I almost always know what I am thinking and feeling, I just sometimes have trouble conveying it in a satisfying way, especially if I am concerned about the other person’s possible reaction or being misunderstood.

So in many INFPs one finds the converse pattern that is found in the majority of people, with the flirting starting out very light (in the case of the OP, big smiles for example) and steadily increasing in volume as the relationship becomes more meaningful and secure (smacking my husband on the butt, teasing, and trying to seduce him every time he’s even remotely within reach, for example.)

I think INFPs differ greatly from ENFPs in this regard. INFPs are more apt to use flirting more judiciously, whereas ENFPs...... well..... let's face it..... ENFPs aren’t necessarily flirting because it means anything… it’s because it’s Tuesday.

Yes, definately relate to the bits in bold.

Well, I'm glad we aren't entirely the same person, I suspect we both like to feel unique! I'm pretty sure I'm a 4w5 enneagram. Don't really know enough about it to guess how that influences things. I think I might be sp/so/sx instinctual stackings but I've only tested once....

Do all 4s want to be "saved", validated, & fawned over?? I don't want to be "saved"...and I don't feel ashamed for pursuing someone....
 
Last edited:

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
This, however, is crap.

Jung's use of rational/irrational is the dumbest thing I've seen in all typology.

Yes, ENTPs and INTJs are "irrational" types, entirely because of their dominant function.

Keirsey (who I'm no fan of either) put them in "The Rational" temperament for no good reason whatsoever.

:rolleyes:

Keirsey & Jung are using the same word in VERY different ways. They use such different ways of categorizing personality that I'd hardly combine the two... One is behavioral, the other psychological in the most non-tangible way.

All types can be rational & use rational thinking, of course. J-dom approach the world as something to be organized into something that makes sense (Thinking classifies what something is & Feeling assigns value). P-dom, however, are "aware" of things - they "see" what is & what is not. They don't need to use extensive lines of reasoning & classifications to "see" things - those things just are. Jung says it's difficult for a Ji-dom to grasp how the Pi-dom experiences their perceptions as objective (aka they don't relate it to themselves), that they see it as just an idea that may be true, likely, or possible. Whether it's true, likely, or possible is determined with Je, so of course there is still use of rational reasoning. The Ji-dom, however, is highly aware of their own subjectivity in the sense that they KNOW their judgments/classifications are created by themselves, and their aim is to hammer out their reasoning into something airtight so it can be accepted by others. This is very easy to see in INPs especially...it's why we write walls of text :tongue: .

Of course, the INFP is "organizing" within their inner world. Hence, we build extensive lines of reasoning behind our valuations, something which very few people see, but which the few who do see it can benefit from a lot. We're called "harmonizer-clarifiers" on some profiles because we make sense of human feeling in a way that helps people use it better. Our focus is not application (which is EXHAUSTING), though, so much as understanding. We don't seek to affect people much with our views, unless requested by them, but when we do, there's often a tendency to explain very thoroughly why something is so. We may even be articulate other people's feelings & ideas for them very well. I've seen other INFPs do this to me even; they see my idea/feeling & hammer it out even more until it's even more articulate. This is useful to anyone who has a hard time communicating their inner world and/or is stubborn & needs extensive proof of another view being possible ( :cough: Ni-dom :cough: ).

The ENFP, however, is the "champion of the underdog"... They get people's attention, they affect people charismatically, they cause change in other people's perceptions of what is what. It's more external, obviously, but less hammered out. INFPs go a little deeper to provide in depth reasons for why these things are important or good or whatever, but they also take less action & affect less people. Sometimes you see an INFP be quite Ne-ish & an ENFP be quite Fi-ish, but we're talking over all personality & tendencies.
 

NotOfTwo

small potatoes
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
509
MBTI Type
INTP
Blah blah...pages later, shouldn't INTJs stick with INTPs?

Just a thought.
 

Mia.

New member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
821
Absent generalizations, then, how about illustrative examples, especially of the highlighted? (I don't interact with many NFPs IRL, so here is my chance to learn from you folks.)

And yes, not all NFPs, especially ENFPS, know enough to reserve comment until they know the person well. I would suspect you are stellar when analyzing someone very close to you. I have only one (E)NFP in my "inner circle", and sometimes even she gets it wrong.

Aww... thanks for the vote of confidence. :blush: From an INTJ, that is prized indeed. I'm kinda pressed for time at the moment, but I'm posting so I will come back to it after giving it some thought. :)
 

Edgar

Nerd King Usurper
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
4,266
MBTI Type
INTJ
Instinctual Variant
sx
[MENTION=5398]Edgar[/MENTION]: INTJ ? ?

My enneagram results tend to be either 5w4 or 8w7, depending on the way the wind blows that day.
As for my instinctual variant, it can be either sp or sx...
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,581
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
So I haven't read any of this but my opinion is that on average, enfps may get along better. However, there are some infps that would be an incredible match as well. It all depends on the two individuals and the chemistry between them.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,581
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Keirsey & Jung are using the same word in VERY different ways. They use such different ways of categorizing personality that I'd hardly combine the two... One is behavioral, the other psychological in the most non-tangible way.

All types can be rational & use rational thinking, of course. J-dom approach the world as something to be organized into something that makes sense (Thinking classifies what something is & Feeling assigns value). P-dom, however, are "aware" of things - they "see" what is & what is not. They don't need to use extensive lines of reasoning & classifications to "see" things - those things just are. Jung says it's difficult for a Ji-dom to grasp how the Pi-dom experiences their perceptions as objective (aka they don't relate it to themselves), that they see it as just an idea that may be true, likely, or possible. Whether it's true, likely, or possible is determined with Je, so of course there is still use of rational reasoning. The Ji-dom, however, is highly aware of their own subjectivity in the sense that they KNOW their judgments/classifications are created by themselves, and their aim is to hammer out their reasoning into something airtight so it can be accepted by others. This is very easy to see in INPs especially...it's why we write walls of text :tongue: .

Of course, the INFP is "organizing" within their inner world. Hence, we build extensive lines of reasoning behind our valuations, something which very few people see, but which the few who do see it can benefit from a lot. We're called "harmonizer-clarifiers" on some profiles because we make sense of human feeling in a way that helps people use it better. Our focus is not application (which is EXHAUSTING), though, so much as understanding. We don't seek to affect people much with our views, unless requested by them, but when we do, there's often a tendency to explain very thoroughly why something is so. We may even be articulate other people's feelings & ideas for them very well. I've seen other INFPs do this to me even; they see my idea/feeling & hammer it out even more until it's even more articulate. This is useful to anyone who has a hard time communicating their inner world and/or is stubborn & needs extensive proof of another view being possible ( :cough: Ni-dom :cough: ).

The ENFP, however, is the "champion of the underdog"... They get people's attention, they affect people charismatically, they cause change in other people's perceptions of what is what. It's more external, obviously, but less hammered out. INFPs go a little deeper to provide in depth reasons for why these things are important or good or whatever, but they also take less action & affect less people. Sometimes you see an INFP be quite Ne-ish & an ENFP be quite Fi-ish, but we're talking over all personality & tendencies.

Oh and just an off-hand comment. This kind of interaction would be pretty interesting to a lot of intjs.
 

prplchknz

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
34,397
MBTI Type
yupp
I have 2 INTJ friends IRL and I consider both of them to be very close and dear friends of mine. one might be because we've slept together and wouldn't mind marrying one day, and the other I've known since middle school.
 

Esoteric Wench

Professional Trickster
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
945
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w8
So I haven't read any of this but my opinion is that on average, enfps may get along better. However, there are some infps that would be an incredible match as well. It all depends on the two individuals and the chemistry between them.

I would agree with this.

In general, I think ENFPs would be a better match. In general, I think that INFPs are not a good match. This is obviously a conversation in generalities and should be taken as such. I think that the INFPs I know are more focused on creating worlds that reflects their INFP Fi-value system. INTJs are more about being strategists and working toward whatever goal is at hand. In some ways I think INFPs and INTJs are antithetical to each other in the aforementioned aspects.

Said in another way, I think an INFP would be well-matched with someone who could celebrate her/his ideal view of their world. I've never met an INTJ who would do this... at least not without a lot of practice. I see most INFPs getting hurt on a regular basis by their INTJs.

Let me repeat that I'm speaking in generalities, but like Highlander, I think a run-of-the-mill ENFP would be a better fit for the run-of-the-mill INTJ.
 

CreativeCait

New member
Joined
May 18, 2012
Messages
80
MBTI Type
PING
Said in another way, I think an INFP would be well-matched with someone who could celebrate her/his ideal view of their world. I've never met an INTJ who would do this... at least not without a lot of practice. I see most INFPs getting hurt on a regular basis by their INTJs.

This is interesting...I think the other side of the argument/discussion/equation hasn't been addressed yet. What can INTJs bring to INFPs and ENFPs that would make either a good pairing or not??? (In general terms ofcourse) Example: ENFPs might be good for INTJs, but are INTJs good for ENFPs etc.??
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
This is interesting...I think the other side of the argument/discussion/equation hasn't been addressed yet. What can INTJs bring to INFPs and ENFPs that would make either a good pairing or not??? (In general terms ofcourse) Example: ENFPs might be good for INTJs, but are INTJs good for ENFPs etc.??

Get your own thread!

:azdaja:
 

CreativeCait

New member
Joined
May 18, 2012
Messages
80
MBTI Type
PING
Uh....what???

Doesn't looking at whether INTJs suit ENFPs or INFPs affect whether ENFPs or INFPs are a good match for INTJs????
 
Top