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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    The Se mindset is not any less biased than another. Se types may be called "realists", but this is based on the bias that reality is the external, physical world experienced via the senses & acquired facts. Are not other types conscious of other aspects of reality, and are these aspects not just as significant? Each type's preference is their filter for seeing reality, and that filter tends to make them focus on certain areas of reality more than others (ie. Se - 5 senses in the moment vs Fi - fundamental moral/aesthetic value outside of external cultural/time bounds), giving them an incomplete view. Jung said something to the effect that ALL of the functions are required to see reality as it is, which no one has in equal measure, and so everyone is prone to massive bias & this creates misunderstanding with people, but can also mean we need others to balance us out with their take on reality.

    Is a Se-dom mind more capable of balancing a Ni-dom mind? Well, if you're a socionics fan, yes, because their idea of compatibility is making up for those "blind spots"; similar idea with the anima/animus theory (getting in touch with the repressed parts, blah blah blah).

    On the other hand, compatibility can also be a matter of happiness & being on the same page so as to accomplish things & not constantly be battling out over opposite takes on life, etc.

    The advantage of an ExFP is they will pursue, so the INTJ can return to Ni-Te equilibrium in the meantime, after tert Fi settles down a bit. I think it's a rude awakening for the ExFP when the Te face goes back on though (I see this in threads a lot too; the previously coy, mysterious INTJ is now being an ass to the ExFP who is all hurt about it; and they seem to get hurt more easily than IxFPs). I've seen something similar with my ESFP sister & the many ISTJs she's dated; it's all fine & dandy until the ISTJ has a will of his own again.
    Will get to the above later.

    You lost me at "Se is still biased" because, yes, obviously I know that.

    There were other parts further down that were good, but I really want to respond immediately to this last paragraph.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Anyhow, what I think INFP will call BS on is emotional obtuseness; and while an ExFP may easily do the same, I think INFPs are better at shaming people effectively . ExFPs go off with eloquent rants that inform people of what-is-what, but INFPs make simple quiet statements and/or ask thought-provoking questions. The latter gets dismissed a lot by T types as emotionalism, whereas the former can carry more weight because it's expressed with lines of reasoning over making people "see".
    This is all phenomenal.

    This is the kind of stuff I was looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    The difference then is - INFPs are dominant RATIONAL types, but INTJs are not & neither are ExFPs. This brings a different kind of balance. When it comes to rational reasoning, I think INFPs have an edge on ExFPs, although ExFPs are no doubt more persuasive in other ways.
    This, however, is crap.

    Jung's use of rational/irrational is the most retarded thing I've found in all of typology.

    Yes, ENTPs and INTJs are "irrational" types, entirely because of their dominant function.

    Keirsey (who I'm no fan of either) put them in "The Rational" temperament for no good reason whatsoever.


  2. #202
    yap yap yap xenaprincess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    (re INTJ's):
    Te isn't that good at dealing with people outside of a "work together" context, but the tert/inf Fi eventually teaches us Te types to "just be nice to everyone, no matter what, because it's way more effective than being an @$$hole."
    haha. very true.
    my INTJ is a terror on the roads. There are right ways of doing things and wrong ways. He claims he'd be a great traffic cop but we both know he'd have a conniption fit the first day.

    Thanks for the communication advice, too. I do believe you are correct, sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I think some INTJs forget Te in courting because fweelings overwhelm them, and with Fi, that means withdrawing & not expressing them. That's pretty much what all INTJ threads about dating sound like - "OMG, I like this girl & I don't know what to dooooo! I'm just going to post here & pine away & analyze her actions into infinity because I don't know how to interpret things like FWEELINGS, and in the meantime she will lose interest & I'll have lost my chance." It's a Ni-Fi paranoid, confuzzled loop. They need to turn the Te back on - identify the objective, make a plan, carry it out, WIN.
    :yim_rolling_on_the_

    I loved OrangeAppled's post. haha.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    [...]The INFP just has to channel Johnny Depp & not Mr. Rogers. [...]
    Here is me channeling Johnny Depp:




  4. #204
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    i didn't read most of the thread, but are we supposed to be fighting for the love of the intj population? i will gladly surrender that to the enfps.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenaprincess View Post
    haha. very true.
    my INTJ is a terror on the roads. There are right ways of doing things and wrong ways. He claims he'd be a great traffic cop but we both know he'd have a conniption fit the first day.
    Despite the obvious pain in the tuckus they create for all involved, I find TJ conniption fits hysterically adorable.

  6. #206
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Jealousy plotline with all the INTJ tool strokings. Well played Z.
    Likes chickpea, Alassea liked this post

  7. #207
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    They don't call us masterminds for nothing.


  8. #208
    Member CreativeCait's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    Well, we can’t be twins after all, and this is one area where we differ I think. Maybe enneagram influences this? I almost always know what I am thinking and feeling, I just sometimes have trouble conveying it in a satisfying way, especially if I am concerned about the other person’s possible reaction or being misunderstood.

    So in many INFPs one finds the converse pattern that is found in the majority of people, with the flirting starting out very light (in the case of the OP, big smiles for example) and steadily increasing in volume as the relationship becomes more meaningful and secure (smacking my husband on the butt, teasing, and trying to seduce him every time he’s even remotely within reach, for example.)

    I think INFPs differ greatly from ENFPs in this regard. INFPs are more apt to use flirting more judiciously, whereas ENFPs...... well..... let's face it..... ENFPs aren’t necessarily flirting because it means anything… it’s because it’s Tuesday.
    Yes, definately relate to the bits in bold.

    Well, I'm glad we aren't entirely the same person, I suspect we both like to feel unique! I'm pretty sure I'm a 4w5 enneagram. Don't really know enough about it to guess how that influences things. I think I might be sp/so/sx instinctual stackings but I've only tested once....

    Do all 4s want to be "saved", validated, & fawned over?? I don't want to be "saved"...and I don't feel ashamed for pursuing someone....
    Last edited by CreativeCait; 05-26-2012 at 09:47 PM. Reason: After reading OrangeAppled's post maybe I'm not??

  9. #209
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    This, however, is crap.

    Jung's use of rational/irrational is the dumbest thing I've seen in all typology.

    Yes, ENTPs and INTJs are "irrational" types, entirely because of their dominant function.

    Keirsey (who I'm no fan of either) put them in "The Rational" temperament for no good reason whatsoever.

    Keirsey & Jung are using the same word in VERY different ways. They use such different ways of categorizing personality that I'd hardly combine the two... One is behavioral, the other psychological in the most non-tangible way.

    All types can be rational & use rational thinking, of course. J-dom approach the world as something to be organized into something that makes sense (Thinking classifies what something is & Feeling assigns value). P-dom, however, are "aware" of things - they "see" what is & what is not. They don't need to use extensive lines of reasoning & classifications to "see" things - those things just are. Jung says it's difficult for a Ji-dom to grasp how the Pi-dom experiences their perceptions as objective (aka they don't relate it to themselves), that they see it as just an idea that may be true, likely, or possible. Whether it's true, likely, or possible is determined with Je, so of course there is still use of rational reasoning. The Ji-dom, however, is highly aware of their own subjectivity in the sense that they KNOW their judgments/classifications are created by themselves, and their aim is to hammer out their reasoning into something airtight so it can be accepted by others. This is very easy to see in INPs especially...it's why we write walls of text .

    Of course, the INFP is "organizing" within their inner world. Hence, we build extensive lines of reasoning behind our valuations, something which very few people see, but which the few who do see it can benefit from a lot. We're called "harmonizer-clarifiers" on some profiles because we make sense of human feeling in a way that helps people use it better. Our focus is not application (which is EXHAUSTING), though, so much as understanding. We don't seek to affect people much with our views, unless requested by them, but when we do, there's often a tendency to explain very thoroughly why something is so. We may even be articulate other people's feelings & ideas for them very well. I've seen other INFPs do this to me even; they see my idea/feeling & hammer it out even more until it's even more articulate. This is useful to anyone who has a hard time communicating their inner world and/or is stubborn & needs extensive proof of another view being possible ( :cough: Ni-dom :cough: ).

    The ENFP, however, is the "champion of the underdog"... They get people's attention, they affect people charismatically, they cause change in other people's perceptions of what is what. It's more external, obviously, but less hammered out. INFPs go a little deeper to provide in depth reasons for why these things are important or good or whatever, but they also take less action & affect less people. Sometimes you see an INFP be quite Ne-ish & an ENFP be quite Fi-ish, but we're talking over all personality & tendencies.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #210
    small potatoes NotOfTwo's Avatar
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    Blah blah...pages later, shouldn't INTJs stick with INTPs?

    Just a thought.
    "It's never enough." The Cure

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