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  1. #31
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @CzeCze

    How does he not fit the description?

  2. #32
    Junior Member Pre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I recently began working with a new company in which they give verious sorts of screening tests to all applicants. The result is about 70% ENFPs.

    The increased concentration allows for a lot of fun observation of how many shades of neurotic enfps can really be under stress, but I also have had a chance to observe the much more Te sided ENFPs. I suspect these guys are sp/sx as the so/sx enfps have a VERY different feel to them (sorta like cuddly.honest, used car salesmen).

    Things I notice:

    1. Very poor social skills at times-totally oblivious about ettiquette-Fe blind. Thy will vary from being very silent and watching and then just blurt out inapproiate things. Then they turn on the silly switch and can become very goofy and silly, sweet.

    2. Hyperanalytical, watching everything, tendency to fixate on certain types of information

    3. Obsessed with patterns

    4. Rude, excessively blurt, tend to stutter on words.

    5. They look and act like STJs most of the time, but really strange goofy ones.

    Have you guys seen these folks around?
    This is exactly like me!

  3. #33
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pre View Post
    This is exactly like me!
    I think it is an ENFP sp/sx instinctual variant description perhaps-there are a significant number of these folks around.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I think it is an ENFP sp/sx instinctual variant description perhaps-there are a significant number of these folks around.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    @Orobas You mean ENFPs who seem to lack/not use a lot of Fi? Or that it's still obvious they use Fi, but the Ne and Te just come so clearly to the forefront? If the latter, quite a few ENFPs seem like that to me.

    It seems that you meant both, because you listed NeTe and also NeFiTe kinds.
    I think I am just confused on exactly what I am seeing, so I swapped terms. These folks have a very strong sense of Fi but they dont display it in terms of overt caring-instead they work really, really hard at some goal or another that is value driven. If you get close to them, you see the caring side as they get kind goofy and will share stuff with you. Not well equipped wtih social graces. I think this may really be a reflection of an older sp/sx ENFP...

    Other things I note are them being OCD and ADHD at the same time as Si and Ne are being torqued to make cognitive leaps. They also micro-manage like a mother fucker unless guided not to, and can be obnoxious in thier need for you to follow thier Si detail in a plan, typically some ridiculous detail or use of a particular word that allows them to "see" thier vision in your work, while being sloppy about all types of other things. They never stop working and judge results over amount of effort-you can work hard all day long and still fail in thier eyes. They will never fail to leap in and try and catch the ball-often resulting in a bit of a scuffle as they step on each other's toes in the process. They also have a tendency to Monday morining quarterback other people's work-as it can always be made better. They also seem to have serious guilt issues. One of the test questions is "whose fault is it when soemthing fails on a project?" and the answer is A) mine or B) someone elses. These guys all picked A. The end result is a combination of chaos and productivity, but I'll keep watching

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    The ENFP personality is linked with cognitive strengths (the IQ test) but in any case you employer just likes thee types for those roles so seems them out. Another possibility is self selecting. What roles are the ENFPs? Also, people may self type on the test to better fit what they think the employer wants.

    When my friend did the Myers in nursing school she was the lone INTP in a sea of ESFJs. I think that was also a case of the three ^^ factors above..
    Interestingly the first self-selection effect is that many folks get pissed when asked to take a test for employment, then dont bother. But after that different positions seem to have different selection criteria-for instance they look for introversion on development staff but extroversion in support and management. (The test isnt MBTI-it is home grown) That much they actually told us. I have also heard mention that the profiles they select for will identify things like "this type of person will feel like a victim when things become problematic and try and get other people to do thier work through asking for help". That a test could have that level of resolution seems questionable to me, so I dunno.

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I've been thinking more about your "Te ENFP" etc. inquiries on the board and I think now that some of the ENFPs you're speaking of are stressed or otherwise environment (nature vs nurture) example of ENFPs who "grew up" in a particular corporate culture that has no place and no pity for soft wuvy duty hippies.
    I have put some thought in this and I halfway agree with you-I do agree it is molded over a lifetime. But i think the result can be an so/sx or an sp/sx mold. The so/sx fends off issues with an Ne twist and an odd mimic of Fe-ish skills, where an sp/sx fends of stress by seeking to control things or hyperanalyze things with Te. Thus the so/sx ends up with better social skills, perhaps being flippant at times, and the sp/sx ends up being extremely analytical, and perhaps overly blunt and obnoxious at times.

    An sx/sp enfp who exhibits a Te stress episode acts very bad. I recently watched this and it is like the guy had no conscious control over his Te and he became extremely tyrannical and HORRIBLE to other people on his team- "Just keep your mouth shut and do your job, who are you to think you can tell me how to better do my job?" while rattling off his credentials. Normally he is extremely sweet and an amazingly caring enfp, so it was a huge character shift. He aslo has almost no ability to detach his emo investment from his work product-He cant accept any critique at all without getting very defensive...

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I have 2 female ENFP friends who are very successful in their careers in corporate/tech/academia/business. They are bossy and in charge but still very ENFP. One would wear flip flops and bring green smoothies and teach yoga to her investment/corp accounting something something firm. The other works in tech so has a less orthodox corporate culture on the surface but she worked her way up from being a lowly temp by being extremely bossy (Te) and is now a project manager of sorts.

    Isn't agent furring a boss lady too? Where are you @agentfurrina (<-- prolly did not spell her name right)

    Those two friends are very socially well adjusted and popular though. They succeeded partly because of not in spite of their people skills.

    I think for ENFPs who have this weird Jekyll and Hyde personality and the things you mention, is it grossly unfair/inaccurate to say those people while technically well suited to their jobs just weren't cut out for the corporate environment? It's like sticking a square peg through a circle or vice versa, this is the best they could do..
    I know some enfps like this at work and they seem pretty happy. Sometimes they do strike me as the boss in "better off dead" though. Like it is an oozy, freindly sorta bossiness and not sincre in thier affection for you, which seems reasonable at work I guess. I suspect they think people like them more than they really do, however , and I think they may also over estimate the power of thier influence to some extent.

    Oddly some the ENFPs I am describing are extremely successful. I didnt see these folks at all in biotech, but have seen several in IT, not sure why the diff. They tend to start small companies where all that matters are that you produce results-the deliverable takes the cake. Also highly focused on providing solutions to customers-they are rewarded by solving a problem for the customer others could not. One..the most amazing one..is famous for visiting a customer site and resolving every issue the customer had in a 30 day period after the site visit. I have such a man-crush on this guy. He is so amazing..like you sit in a room with him and you can just feel parts of his brain expanding and relaigning...It is sooo awesome. Totally hyepr focused-hyper active and interrupted all of us as we tried to present.

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I had an ENFP boss (very bad, she fits into your description more or less) and remember incidents with 2 other ENFPs who I know IRL and act like they are so nice and friendly but I had email convos with both about volunteering or work stuff and my impression was "wow what a bitch" in both cases. (1 guy, 1 girl). I dropped both from my "list of acquaintances" afterward. It's like all of a sudden they lose all ability to be even be civil and get incredibly rude. Personally I think thats weak and shows a lack of self integration.
    You mean after an email convo, you decided they were rude? Yikes. I have people do this to me sometimes-becuase in my brain when I type, I type thoughts, the words tend to lack emotion. If I am particularly focused, they can be very directive. Only long after the fact have people told me they were too blunt and I was totally taken aback as that wasnt the intent-I just was thinking about what I wrote. I have went back in a fairly formulaic way and learned to ask rather than tell and add fluffy openers and such so people dont take things the worng way, but it is something I have to plan-it isnt natural.

    As you describe this I am recalling an interaction I had recently with an so/sx ENFP guy I worked with. We had a meeting and he was being all chilled out and suave-friendly and he seemed confused why I wasnt being goofy with him. In my own mind I was going "hmmm, dont you know it is thinking time? fun time can come in a few minutes, but right now is thinking time. Whya rent you thinking with me.?" Not in a mad way or angry or judgemental-more perpelxed as I like him quite a bit. He seemed puzzled and then I tried to smile and be friendly as he is a nice guy, and I didnt mean to be mean, but when I think I am very serious and focused on the topic at hand.

    From your perspective, you would regard the inability to keep on a happy face to be rude? It feels so forced and when I am trying to think, it feels exhausting to pretend to be happy. Oddly I am having a lot of fun typically, and quite satisfied, but in the manner of a puppy playing with a chew toy with another puppy-its really fun to find the answer to a tough problem, but to do so I have to put on my serious face and focus.

    You know I recently got shit from another so/sx enfp about being "bitter" when I was in this mode-oddly it is when I am at my most neutral and detached and trying to understand how the problem, not bitter!

    It speaks to an interesting divide across our happy enfp family!

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    ENFJs can flip fast but with them the anger or admonishment seems organic. It's believable. With an ENfP who developed specifically for work and not life (if that makes sense) it seems bizarre and extremely off putt

    I think if you've been forced to develop and use your Te and completely suppress your "fun carefree sensitive side" which is a big part of your personality and never really learned or developed a true eye for social context and rules and merely learned to mimic (again adapting to corporate culture), then yeah, you'll constantly be putting your foot in your mouth.

    However, I think those kind of ENFPs are a special breed. Most of the ENFP females I know are very diplomatic. Then again, the ENFPs I know are more of the hippy/community organizer variety. It's a different culture, different values, different skill set developed. Also no doubt attracts different ENFPs (mostly)

    Phew! So how's that for an answer? :P
    Hmm, I am trying to think about the ENFJs I knew in science..Interestingly the one would do some really odd stuff at times....maybe he is an example of some sort of enfj variant, i dunno. I think you are on to something wrt the different values/different skills notion.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I have put some thought in this and I halfway agree with you-I do agree it is molded over a lifetime. But i think the result can be an so/sx or an sp/sx mold. The so/sx fends off issues with an Ne twist and an odd mimic of Fe-ish skills, where an sp/sx fends of stress by seeking to control things or hyperanalyze things with Te. Thus the so/sx ends up with better social skills, perhaps being flippant at times, and the sp/sx ends up being extremely analytical, and perhaps overly blunt and obnoxious at times.


    So/Sx that's me

    LOL. I getya on the 'mimicing Fe' part. So/sx primary is Not Fe but a decent approximation in the workplace.

    An sx/sp enfp who exhibits a Te stress episode acts very bad. I recently watched this and it is like the guy had no conscious control over his Te and he became extremely tyrannical and HORRIBLE to other people on his team- "Just keep your mouth shut and do your job, who are you to think you can tell me how to better do my job?" while rattling off his credentials. Normally he is extremely sweet and an amazingly caring enfp, so it was a huge character shift. He aslo has almost no ability to detach his emo investment from his work product-He cant accept any critique at all without getting very defensive...
    Sounds like some ENTPs I know. HA.. HA.. HA..

    Partly kidding. But yeah, I guess some types are more prone to taking criticism very personally. Generally I've found INTJs don't do this MOST of the time so they are easy to work with in that aspect.

    I know some enfps like this at work and they seem pretty happy. Sometimes they do strike me as the boss in "better off dead" though. Like it is an oozy, freindly sorta bossiness and not sincre in thier affection for you, which seems reasonable at work I guess. I suspect they think people like them more than they really do, however , and I think they may also over estimate the power of thier influence to some extent.
    Haha, you know, as an Fi heavy type I can be really suspicious of Fe. Not all the time. I actually like Fe. But sometimes, I just can't tell how sincere someone is being and I am a bad judge of how others are interpreting it. I take it back, it's not that I don't trust Fe, it's just that I definitely look at friendliness and other things with more judicious eyes. I especially am sensitive to the good natured "I don't give a funk" kind of friendliness (more evident in fellow Ne doms ENTPs) where the person seems jovial and jokey but I'm pretty sure they don't have any personal or emotional investment in what they are working nor do they necessarily like you or not, they are just shooting the breeze. This is often why I get frustrated at people who I feel fall for the "used car salesmen" shtick, I want to shake them and go, "You fool! This person doesn't respect you one bit! They're playing you!"

    I think I am just paranoid, and I sometimes think someone is trying to overtly manipulate me but I'm not sure what the appropriate response is in that instance. Othertimes, things are just peachy and I think someone is just being friendly or whatnot.

    Oddly some the ENFPs I am describing are extremely successful. I didnt see these folks at all in biotech, but have seen several in IT, not sure why the diff.
    Yes, IT!

    You mean after an email convo, you decided they were rude? Yikes. I have people do this to me sometimes-becuase in my brain when I type, I type thoughts, the words tend to lack emotion. If I am particularly focused, they can be very directive. Only long after the fact have people told me they were too blunt and I was totally taken aback as that wasnt the intent-I just was thinking about what I wrote. I have went back in a fairly formulaic way and learned to ask rather than tell and add fluffy openers and such so people dont take things the worng way, but it is something I have to plan-it isnt natural.
    Ha, no it wasn't that they were devoid of smiley faces and soft openers. Blunt emails are de rigeur in a business setting. I don't take them personally and can write pretty plainly myself. But, this was for volunteer or other non-work related stuff. It's like in their daily personas they tried to be soft and friendly and whatnot but then all of a sudden when I needed help or made a mistake in one case it was like BAM, absolutely none of the friendliness, helpfulness, goofiness, etc. that I felt they went out of their ways to be known for. I was really desperate for some advice in one instance and it was related to shared volunteer work I did with this one ENFP and their response basically said to me they couldn't give a fuck, that's also why I was put off. I found out later that they had slept with a friend of mine but then my friend never called them back. So they may have been predisposed to not be very friendly towards me.

    I think in retrospect, with Fi, because ENFPs regardless of tritype are so fluffy and have vulnerable feelings that when feeling attacked (either overtly or someone is trying to 'get' something from you) that you can enter vigilant mode and just go the other extreme and see rude or even hostile.

    As you describe this I am recalling an interaction I had recently with an so/sx ENFP guy I worked with. We had a meeting and he was being all chilled out and suave-friendly and he seemed confused why I wasnt being goofy with him. In my own mind I was going "hmmm, dont you know it is thinking time? fun time can come in a few minutes, but right now is thinking time. Whya rent you thinking with me.?" Not in a mad way or angry or judgemental-more perpelxed as I like him quite a bit. He seemed puzzled and then I tried to smile and be friendly as he is a nice guy, and I didnt mean to be mean, but when I think I am very serious and focused on the topic at hand.
    Ha, I remember you described the ENFP "serious face" and that it looked like we were slightly pissed off as opposed to an ENTP "serious face" which was more blank?

    From your perspective, you would regard the inability to keep on a happy face to be rude?
    Ooh, that sounds like a loaded question but I would say there is a time and place for everything. Sometimes it can just feel inexplicably abrupt or confusing when someone seems to flip-flop regardless of context. My ENFP boss was like this. Sometimes she seriously seemed loopy and would joke around with coworkers and other times she was directive and lecturing. Aside from time and place it made me feel like I didn't really get her and made me keep her at arm's length. Personally, at work at least I'm more for 1 or the other. I'm typically all business and I don't talk about my personal life and I'm friendly but only as much as I keep a cordial distance to everyone. It's either work or pleasure for me, not both.

    It feels so forced and when I am trying to think, it feels exhausting to pretend to be happy. Oddly I am having a lot of fun typically, and quite satisfied, but in the manner of a puppy playing with a chew toy with another puppy-its really fun to find the answer to a tough problem, but to do so I have to put on my serious face and focus.
    I think for a work environment this is perfectly normal.

    You know I recently got shit from another so/sx enfp about being "bitter" when I was in this mode-oddly it is when I am at my most neutral and detached and trying to understand how the problem, not bitter!
    Ha! I wish I could offer some so/sx insight but I rarely think people are being bitter about anything.
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