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  1. #91
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I see. That being the case, I'm inclined to agree, although I'd make the distinction that a Thinking dominant is more likely to attain an objective interpretation of gathered knowledge.

    Also, if you'll forgive me a small amount of Devil's Advocacy, wouldn't the ISTP be more in touch with objective truth, using his introverted thinking to act upon concrete data taken in directly through the senses rather than that which has been filtered through the "matrix" of intuition?
    With regard to simple matters yes. However, in order to solve complex problems, intuition is required.

    The 'matrix' effect is more akin to S oriented thinking rather than N. An unimaginative person is more likely to be 'brainwashed' by conventional ways of thinking. The idea of the matrix is that most people do not see the world as it really is, but as a way those who wish to control them want them to see it. People who do not think critically believe what they are told (lacking imagination is one reason many people do not think critically).

    It is indeed the case if Intuition is undisciplined(Thinking, not sensation is necessary in order to provide the proper structure in order to discipline the intuition for reasons mentioned earlier) it will lead to an illusory view of the world. However, this exercise of Intuition is still to be preferred to the way the Sensor uses it because whilst in the former case one may make numerous mistakes, yet the Sensor uses the Intuition almost not at all and therefore by default makes more mistakes.

    This is much like if two students took a multiple choice test, one of them read every question but did not know the answer to any of them, yet took an educated guess with regard to all of them. The other student did not read any of the questions nor attempted to answer. The former is more likely to receive the higher of the two scores.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  2. #92
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    Any INFP's out there have some other suggestions for INTJ's? If you don't feel comfortable sharing them here, please send me a PM!

  3. #93
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    With regard to simple matters yes. However, in order to solve complex problems, intuition is required.

    The 'matrix' effect is more akin to S oriented thinking rather than N. An unimaginative person is more likely to be 'brainwashed' by conventional ways of thinking. The idea of the matrix is that most people do not see the world as it really is, but as a way those who wish to control them want them to see it. People who do not think critically believe what they are told (lacking imagination is one reason many people do not think critically).

    It is indeed the case if Intuition is undisciplined(Thinking, not sensation is necessary in order to provide the proper structure in order to discipline the intuition for reasons mentioned earlier) it will lead to an illusory view of the world. However, this exercise of Intuition is still to be preferred to the way the Sensor uses it because whilst in the former case one may make numerous mistakes, yet the Sensor uses the Intuition almost not at all and therefore by default makes more mistakes.
    This argument is self-denying; you begin by conceding that poorly-applied intuition will lead to incorrect beliefs, yet still assert that even a poor application of intuition, which would of your own assertion lead to incorrect beliefs, is superior to no application at all.

    In concrete terms: if intuition is the key to proper understanding, why are INTPs markedly more likely than ISTPs to believe in not only a deity but the Christian god? Going by the logic of the above-quoted argument this is because the intuition of these INTPs is "undisciplined", yet contrary to your assertion that an S will "make more mistakes", ISTPs, by virtue of not applying intuition to the question, are the more likely of the two types to hold the empirically supported belief.

  4. #94
    Senior Member quietmusician's Avatar
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    I've known my INTJ buddy since were in the sandbox. So even though we disagree sometimes, we still like each other. I think that is what's keeping us friends, we have a history. I think overall respect is key.

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