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Thread: Te + INFJ = !

  1. #51
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yeah I love how someone will call someone else selfish for not doing what they wanted. "Hey yeah I want to completely devalue your feelings, but you should respect mine. It's much more convenient for me to rely on you for your constant, loyal companionship so that I'm not alone/bored/whatever rather than just make a new friend, so why not just hang out and behave yourself and be happy for me that I want to fuck other people."
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    YES. + 1 million.
    Add another!

  3. #53
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    If I don't get the sense that someone has feelings for me, any feelings I have for them tend to die away...
    This is so true for me as well! I think if they don't show any sign of being attracted to me, I can safely keep them at the "crush" level, and can really be happy for them if they find someone. The lack of clarity of where things are going is much harder to handle. If a guy shows interest in me, flirts, asks me to hang out, and I end up having feelings for him, especially if we have both 'acknowledged' this on some level, but if he then suddenly wants to 'be friends', it will drive me absolutely crazy. In this case, directly telling me it's not going to work and why will be helpful in the long run (if the friendship is going to survive).
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  4. #54
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    @Starry

    I don't think anyone's trying to say the OP is trying to keep this guy around for her own amusement. But speaking from experience, I think it's way better to 'take some time apart' after you reject someone romantically than to keep on 'being friends and acting as nothing has happened'. In the long run, I think it makes it harder for the other person to move on if you're still hanging out with them, etc. (And of course when you start dating other people it will be like hell for your 'friend' who still has feelings for you)
    Thank you so much 21% for taking the time to answer my question in this thread. I really appreciate it. But yah...I guess I'm still a little confused and that's okay (this is certainly not an uncommon experience for me haha!!!). I mean...I do hear what your saying. And I believe the 'model' you outline above is the path that most people take in these type of circumstances (although I disagree that the only way to handle this is 'acting like nothing happened'. I've known couples who worked through these type of things by keeping the communication open and discussing feelings as they arise). I guess what was confusing me was the suggestion that it was the only valid way to handle these scenarios...or the 'better' choice...and that I just don't buy.

    If there is someone in my life...that I cherish...and their greatest fault is that they don't like me romantically when I wanted a little bit more ??? Oh you'd be damn-straight that I'm going to (actively) work through my 'hurt' and continue the friendship with them. And I'm not all that fond of the 'hidden' suggestion that I can do this because my feelings are somehow not as profound or meaningful or deep. Nothing could be further from the truth. What I do is focus on the person...it is the person where I keep my focus...and in this way the storyline can change.

  5. #55
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    The INFJ just needs time to get over the feelings, which sometimes can take a while. In the meantime... for those X number of months, it's difficult to be around the person and try to be 'just friends', while knowing or seeing that person date other people or become involved romantically with others. It's probably why it's easier to cut them out completely for that interim, until feelings are worked through / no longer cause a stumbling block to true friendship. For me this has really only applies if I was actually in a relationship and it ended, but I suppose the same could apply for INFJ's who fall for someone and the relationship never happens? It seems odd on one level, but plausible.
    I totally agree with this...also with your note that it's much stronger of an effect after relationships than after rejections.

    Regarding the Te, I like to think that in the right language and tone, with additional background info if necessary, Te can be used without much more harm than other functions. But I don't know whether I can speak for the results...

    Edit: Wait, wow, this thread got complicated.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 05-13-2012 at 03:44 PM. Reason: then-->than
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  6. #56
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I honestly wonder about people who continue platonically clinging to a person who they say they aren't interested in, although they know the other person is in love with them.

    Why are you clinging to that person if you really don't feel anything? How come you can't move on with your own life if you have no feelings?

    This is the point where I start to question if sometimes people confuse the "infatuation" stage of love (omg you're so hot, I can't keep my hands off you) with real, enduring love. Yeah, real enduring love isn't always as physically exciting. Grow up.

    Clearly you've formed some kind of attachment to someone if you demand continuing companionship from someone you no longer feel those hormonal infatuation feelings for.

    THIS IS WHY THE DIVORCE RATE IS SO HIGH.

    /leaves thread
    Actually, I've kind of been in this situation. Where you care for someone very deeply, sex with them is really appealing, and you still really like hanging out with them. But there's a loss of "sparkle".

    Is this grown-up love and I am still too much of a child to have recognized this? D:

  7. #57
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    update:

    had the conversation with the INFJ. it went really well!!!

    he said he understood, but wanted some specifics, which was fine as i'd had a chance to think things through more clearly. and when i told him i'd understand if he needed time away, even an indefinite period, he said he wouldn't because he'd miss me too much, and also realized this might be the outcome for some time based on our previous talks.

    so thank you to all the awesome INFJs and Te-users who posted here, as the advice to be clear but gentle really helped. even the bizarro contributions of a few embittered types lent perspective on how cruelly some have been rejected, so that i'd never be tempted to do that to my friend.

    he said he was deeply disappointed but would be honored to resume our friendship...and said he felt closer to me from the conversation (even if the outcome wasn't his ideal).

    anyway, just so relieved, grateful, happy!
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
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  8. #58
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Thank you so much 21% for taking the time to answer my question in this thread. I really appreciate it. But yah...I guess I'm still a little confused and that's okay (this is certainly not an uncommon experience for me haha!!!). I mean...I do hear what your saying. And I believe the 'model' you outline above is the path that most people take in these type of circumstances (although I disagree that the only way to handle this is 'acting like nothing happened'. I've known couples who worked through these type of things by keeping the communication open and discussing feelings as they arise). I guess what was confusing me was the suggestion that it was the only valid way to handle these scenarios...or the 'better' choice...and that I just don't buy.

    If there is someone in my life...that I cherish...and their greatest fault is that they don't like me romantically when I wanted a little bit more ??? Oh you'd be damn-straight that I'm going to (actively) work through my 'hurt' and continue the friendship with them. And I'm not all that fond of the 'hidden' suggestion that I can do this because my feelings are somehow not as profound or meaningful or deep. Nothing could be further from the truth. What I do is focus on the person...it is the person where I keep my focus...and in this way the storyline can change.
    I was in no way implying the bolded at all! After reading @SilkRoad 's post I'm a bit clearer on the subject as well. If there is open communication, then I'm perfectly fine. If the guy clearly states that nothing will happen and that he values our friendship, I can handle that and I can move on. It's only hell when he's confused and doesn't know what to do but decides to keep me around, especially when he acts as if he still has feelings for me. It's a bit strange that a lot of people don't realize the importance of open communication and prefer to 'see how it goes', which often leads to things getting weird and awkward...

    Thinking back, I've had both situations happen to me, and the guy who I knew did not have feelings for me I'm still friends with

    @agentfurrina
    Congrats and good luck!
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  9. #59
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I know that your problem is now resolved, but I thought this problem was interesting as it highlights our very different approaches and ways of interpreting the same behaviours.

    Quote Originally Posted by agentfurrina View Post
    INFJs:
    1 - if you were to fall in love with a friend, what is the best way for that friend to tell you she doesn't see a romantic future between the two of you? (short explanation? in person or written?) Matter-of-factly with no room for misinterpretation, but don't embarrass the other person if you can avoid it.
    2 - have you ever tried pressuring someone into a relationship, by making yourself hyper-available/-accommodating or turning on the big saucer eyes? oblique/indirect displays of romantic feelings that may be difficult to pick up on? No, and I actually don't think this is a manipulative move. INFJs generally tend to be pretty accommodating, and when they like someone, they are indirect and just make themselves very ubiquitously available, almost in spite of themselves. I think this honestly is not an attempt to pressure you.
    3 - if you are rejected by a friend, does that usually mean the end of the friendship?
    No, but I think it takes time to get over feelings and it happens much sooner if stuff can be revisited as needed and questions answered. (Serves to douse the fire nicely and stamp out the remaining sparks when there's resolution. Ni sucks sometimes as it creates so many possibilities and questions and I have a hard time letting go of something until I have the variables accounted for and the possible outcomes of each determined. I know that I at least can often obsess about the whys or ifs, even more that I do about the whats.). Otherwise, it requires no contact for awhile so those unresolved questions can dwindle in importance or so that new possibilities are not introduced. Contact is like adding logs to the fire that you are trying to squelch.

    I think there is definitely a divide between how Ps envision relationships (pretty fluid) vs how I do. I like people in my life to be categorized. I'll move them around as needed, but pretty soon after meeting anyone, I have an idea of what kind of potential there is for the friendship or relationship or what the nature of it might be. I like knowing what to expect and can adjust fairly well to any mode of relating, but I like it to be consistent and clear. I personally tend to be reluctant to cut anyone out of my life, unless they introduce something unredeemably negative. I don't like some types of change and tend to like keeping familiar people around, even those of little importance to me. For example, I would miss the people on my every day route (coffee shop regulars, people on the street, acquaintances at work, television characters) if they suddenly weren't there, even if they didn't occupy a significant role in my life. For those that are important to me or were at one time, I am generally sorry to see them exit my life entirely, even if their significance changes.


    .

  10. #60
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    If there is someone in my life...that I cherish...and their greatest fault is that they don't like me romantically when I wanted a little bit more ??? Oh you'd be damn-straight that I'm going to (actively) work through my 'hurt' and continue the friendship with them. And I'm not all that fond of the 'hidden' suggestion that I can do this because my feelings are somehow not as profound or meaningful or deep. Nothing could be further from the truth. What I do is focus on the person...it is the person where I keep my focus...and in this way the storyline can change.
    I see what you mean with this and I think it's something I personally (and perhaps a lot of INFJs) are bad at doing. However, I've found that in some cases the way the storyline has unfolded has shown me a lot about what that person is really like. To the extent that I no longer wish to continue a friendship, even if I could get through the long painful process of working through my feelings. I don't think there's anything wrong with deciding you no longer want to be friends with someone who is a selfish user, or who leads others on for their own amusement. I am not saying that this is ALWAYS how such situations play out, of course. But where they do the idea of "working through" things and continuing a friendship may seem utterly pointless and bizarre.

    The fact is - with the small number of people who have disappeared from my life in this manner, while I've had long mourning periods and there may be some permanent sore spots and scars, it ultimately hasn't proved to be a great loss. I'm sure that sounds very cold but...it's true. I end up seeing how we were bad for each other in various ways and how keeping them in my life would have resulted in further damage. They may even have gone on to behave similarly with other people, or make really unfortunate/destructive decisions, etc, which have tended to confirm that my decision was more or less correct and that they're not the type of people I need or want in my life. Again - I am NOT saying that this is how things are in all or even most such situations, or that everyone will want to have the same approach. These have been my feelings and my approach in a few situations. I'm also of the opinion that those who want to keep everyone around in their life - even if some of those people treated them badly - end up in bad situations, a lot. I have a friend who I've mentioned before in various contexts who is still at least friendly with virtually every ex (and occasionally falls in love with them again) - although these guys did things like treat her semi-abusively, become habitual drug users, use her for money, try to commit suicide when she broke up with them, cheat on her, etc. I mean, this isn't minor stuff either, some of it is pretty extreme. The fact that she wants them in her life in any context (unless it's absolutely necessary, and it usually isn't) just makes me go . Perhaps she has good reasons for it, but they aren't reasons I understand, I don't think. And she also ends up living out the same patterns repeatedly in her relationships, with guys using her and treating her badly, her putting in all the work, etc.

    As I probably mentioned already (and as others have mentioned), things have gone much better for me in friendships if there was attraction on either side but it was slight and just died away; or if the person was open with me about how they see me in their life, and didn't send me mixed messages and give a general impression of wanting to keep their options open - etc.
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