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  1. #71
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I relate a lot to the interchange you gave -- although I try to avoid apologizing for things that weren't my fault (unless maintaining good relations with someone requires it), I am very willing to give credit where credit is due, and blame where blame is due, which often means taking part in exchanges like what you just described.

    I find the rest of this quote so foreign, though; if it is Fi, then my Fi must be weaker than I thought it was. However, I think your reasoning is a perfect explanation of why people would say "it's not your fault" -- i.e. that some people out there, yourself included, use the phrase "I'm sorry" almost exclusively meaning the literal meaning, i.e. "I'm sorry because I am in part to blame for this".

    Is the issue the same, when the phrase is extended to its full form, i.e. "I'm sorry for your loss"?
    With respect to the quote and Fi, , I think you have a beautiful sense of values -I suspect my Fi version is just enfp flavored and even likely a sub-type of enfp at that, so I tend to let too much of the world into my space and be too idealistic all at once, which makes me way too sensitive at times.

    "I'm sorry for your loss" feels more contained and almost formulaic, thus I would respond with a more formulaic response in turn, (enfp chameleon effect) so it is much easier not to default to the knee jerk "It's not your fault". I think part of the cause for the knee jerk incorrect response is that I tend be very authentic and literal in my communication with others, as well as I dont think before I open my mouth, thus do blurt things out at times-whatever is on the top of my head and fits the flow of the conversation the best.

    I thought a bit more on this and I can alsoidentify with what a few other posters have noted and even what @fidelia observed-typically in his situation I am not comfortable dealing with my own emotions even and I am not comfortable sharing them on the topic, so I tend to be very reserved. So when someone responds with an fairly "intense" empathic response (the big "I'm so sorry") I actually feel do one of two things-1) if I dont know them well, I withdraw into my shell very quickly and I sort of sputter out something to stop what feels like emotional invasiveness and too much probing 2) If I do know them well, then I feel really bad that I made them feel bad and try and take back the blame-just as @fidelia noted. That was really interesting to see from the other side. Thank you beautiful INFJ ladies, as always you enlighten me a great deal.

    To the INFJs-are you offended when you hear the response "It's not your fault"? Or is it just a weird social bump that leaves you off kilter? Or does it feel like your kind gesture was rejected?

  2. #72
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    To the INFJs-are you offended when you hear the response "It's not your fault"? Or is it just a weird social bump that leaves you off kilter? Or does it feel like your kind gesture was rejected?
    I don't think I've ever been offended by it, it's just an initial 'bump'/jolt (as you say), that I then have to decide whether I want to respond to, or simply just shrug my shoulders and not bother. It doesn't leave me off kilter, and I wouldn't go so far to say that I feel my gesture was rejected.

    I just find it odd; mostly because yeah, I KNOW it's not my fault, duh. [and to be fair, usually the 'It's not your fault' is phrased/toned in such a way that I know the other person doesn't mean what *they're* saying in a negative light, either - hence my not being offended.]

    But like I said earlier, I'm no longer that surprised by it, and usually the 'I'm sorry' thing comes out of me spontaneously anyway; most of the time I try to use other phrases or more often, just go with body language and such. Edit: Even though the net result of all is the same... the intention is the same, I'm just aware 'I'm sorry' sounds trite to most, so try not to use it as often.
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  3. #73
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I don't think I've ever been offended by it, it's just an initial 'bump'/jolt (as you say), that I then have to decide whether I want to respond to, or simply just shrug my shoulders and not bother. It doesn't leave me off kilter, and I wouldn't go so far to say that I feel my gesture was rejected.

    I just find it odd; mostly because yeah, I KNOW it's not my fault, duh. [and to be fair, usually the 'It's not your fault' is phrased/toned in such a way that I know the other person doesn't mean what *they're* saying in a negative light, either - hence my not being offended.]

    But like I said earlier, I'm no longer that surprised by it, and usually the 'I'm sorry' thing comes out of me spontaneously; most of the time I try to use other phrases or more often, just go with body language and such.
    I'm sorry
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    To the INFJs-are you offended when you hear the response "It's not your fault"? Or is it just a weird social bump that leaves you off kilter? Or does it feel like your kind gesture was rejected?
    I'm offended by that response when I can sense that it's a deliberate misinterpretation intended to make my condolence sound fake. It might be formulaic (no, I'm not sorry for not being dazzlingly original every minute of my life) but it isn't fake. If I weren't sorry, I wouldn't say anything at all. So it's not that I'm offended about the gesture being rejected, I'm offended about what that rejection signifies.

    I usually remember that it's the other person's life that sucks though, so I shrug my shoulders and move on pretty quickly.

    But I'm not an INFJ.

  5. #75
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza_tema View Post
    I'm offended by that response when I can sense that it's a deliberate misinterpretation intended to make my condolence sound fake. It might be formulaic (no, I'm not sorry for not being dazzlingly original every minute of my life) but it isn't fake. If I weren't sorry, I wouldn't say anything at all. So it's not that I'm offended about the gesture being rejected, I'm offended about what that rejection signifies.

    I usually remember that it's the other person's life that sucks though, so I shrug my shoulders and move on pretty quickly.

    But I'm not an INFJ.
    I'm sorry
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    I'm sorry
    I'm not.

  7. #77
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza_tema View Post
    I'm offended by that response when I can sense that it's a deliberate misinterpretation intended to make my condolence sound fake. It might be formulaic (no, I'm not sorry for not being dazzlingly original every minute of my life) but it isn't fake. If I weren't sorry, I wouldn't say anything at all. So it's not that I'm offended about the gesture being rejected, I'm offended about what that rejection signifies.

    I usually remember that it's the other person's life that sucks though, so I shrug my shoulders and move on pretty quickly.

    But I'm not an INFJ.
    Do people really do that? Like plan things out that way? (sorry, ditzy enfp at the wheel I plan logistics around timelines and delieverables, but blurt out random nonsense half the time I open my mouth )

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Do people really do that? Like plan things out that way? (sorry, ditzy enfp at the wheel I plan logistics around timelines and delieverables, but blurt out random nonsense half the time I open my mouth )
    Plan what?

  9. #79
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza_tema View Post
    Plan what?
    This: "deliberate misinterpretation intended to make my condolence sound fake"

    (not saying they dont, I sort of fail at the subtleties to be honest)

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    This: "deliberate misinterpretation intended to make my condolence sound fake"

    (not saying they dont, I sort of fail at the subtleties to be honest)
    I don't think they plan it any more than I plan to say "I'm sorry" in response to someone's grief. It's an emotional response that happens to get verbalized in a certain way. You can tell from someone's tone what that response is. The words themselves don't carry that weight. For example, someone who said "It's not your fault" because they thought I was saying sorry because I was to blame would sound very different and I wouldn't be put out by that.

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