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  1. #11
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Why should I validate someone's feelings if they won't validate my thinking?
    How does one validate that which is invalid?
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  2. #12
    sophiloist Kaizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Why should I validate someone's feelings if they won't validate my thinking?
    and this is true conversely too... if the concrete in the moment based on the here and now is what they 'feel & sense' then they don't give their faculties of perception a chance to see what might not be obviously visible or known... under developed tertiary and inferior making dealing with the input from the use of the inferior truly scary... forget validation.. just indulgence beyond a token fig leaf like brush with it whilst blindfolded even.
    The answer must be in the attempt
    avy url : natgeocreative Photo

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa73 View Post
    I'm curious to know more about the ENFJ/ESFJ pairing. What would the effect of "insane Fe" be in real life? Does anyone have any stories to share about ENFJ/ESFJ romantic relationships or marriages?

    Would the relationship be tumultuous? Or would the couple just work really hard to get along? Would it be a superficially workable relationship, but underneath lack intimacy? Or does anyone have any examples of such a relationship working and being happy?
    I am married to an ESFJ.
    The relationship has been and is at times tumultuous, explained more below. We both do work really hard to get along. Its a daily reminder of our devotion to each other- which makes it fun, especially bc we both enjoy a challenge. I think our relationship could have easily ended up superficial, but I couldn't live with that. So I "deepen" things and he follows me bc he cares and loves me. And we both offer things that the other just cannot. Its amazing to me how two people with such similar functions could be so different.

    He is amazed at my ease in looking ahead and seeing his potential. I am amazed at his devotion, his concreteness of thinking, and his ability to provide. I know he will do whatever it takes to provide. He insists that we wait to buy only the best we can afford. This is extremely helpful to me. I am not accustomed to noticing such things!
    Insane Fe
    I am just beginning to understand the serious damage that "insane Fe" can do when a couple both have it as a dominant function.
    The biggest problem I see: Couple mood swings.
    We absorb each others energy. One of us begins to feel down and the other is sure to follow. We lift each other up, too.

    Idealist vs. Guardian Perceptions
    ...can be the source of many arguments.
    The scariest thing is to being around large groups of people and to discuss people later and see how our opinions are different and realize, Oh, well, I guess I am not a mind reader. I guess my Fe is not always accurate and is affected by me, my perceptions and experiences/etc. It's an incredible ego deflater. It has been an extremely amazing growth process, and humbling too, to get this smack in the face of reality after seeing Fe from one another's point of view. Most of the time we agree on Fe perceptions, but there was a time when we argued a lot. We finally came to realize that we were both basically saying the same thing.

    Sensing Fe vs. Intuitive Fe
    His feelings can get really hurt by my intuition's insight into people's motivations and I usually have to remind myself that he, as an ESFJ, is much better off not knowing that kind of stuff. I can help him to be the "best he can be", my ultimate goal in life, by keeping that stuff to myself. He enjoys scratching the surface in social interactions, and he will be far better off doing what he enjoys. He gets extremely depressed after thinking down my ENFJ pathways. I have to lay off the philosophizing and do that with friends, although he is happy to philosophize briefly bc he knows how much I like it. His feelings also get hurt if I deter philosophizing for his protection...so I just go with the flow. He backs down when he has had all he can take.

  4. #14
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    I can't figure out what this thread is trying to figure out...Or if it's the thread itself which is really trying to figure it out at all, and not the person behind the words...Uh oh, I've just philosophized myself back into third grade, BBIAB when I graduate again.

  5. #15
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    You can't just say a type-type relationship will not work. What would be the issue with a bunch of Fe?

    Plus if you look to the negative of things then it will most likely turn out bad. Ask yourself this, if you didn't know MBTI existed would you date her?
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  6. #16
    Senior Member chris1207's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa73 View Post
    Would it be a superficially workable relationship, but underneath lack intimacy?
    That one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Afkan View Post
    Idealist vs. Guardian Perceptions
    ...can be the source of many arguments.
    Yeah... apparently there's a wrong way to peel a banana...
    "... you think deeply about stuff [that] nobody cares about and hardly anybody can understand you." ~ Peguy talking about Ni users. So true.

  7. #17
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Ask yourself this, if you didn't know MBTI existed would you date her?
    That's the best advice I think I've ever seen on the relationship subforum.

    edit: not on relationship subforum, but my point still stands.

  8. #18
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    esfjs are a bit annoying. always ready to condemn your ideas. they are really good at it.
    although they are Fs i dont think they are capable of reading another persons feelings like a NF could.

    they would do their best not to hurt anyone's feelings. but it doesn't mean that they are capable of reading other people's feelings and providing comfort.

    if you are feeling down they will tell you what you did wrong and why you shouldn't have done that. which makes things worse. they would also say things like "I TOLD YOU SO". which makes you feel miserable.

    i think a NT type could provide better emotional supprt to a person than a ESFJ.

    but they will listen to you. and try their best to support you when you are down. but it always backfires and will make you feel like you should have NEVER TOLD them about it in the 1st place.

    oh then they will further try to comfort you by saying something totally irrelevant to you.

    so if you ever go out with a ESFJ dont expect them to make you feel good when you are feeling down. go to a ENFJ. or a ENTJ(lol). atleast they(ENTJs) will make you or make you wanna be more ambitious, thereby making you feel tough and smart. thereby making you feel strong again.

  9. #19
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    Honestly, intimacy does not lack in my relationship in a physical way, nor in an emotional way. The "stars" (joking) are aligned, so much so that 3 1/2 (1 is XSFJ) of the 10 staff I work with are ESFJ. I fortunately survived working with these individuals for years, albeit painful at times. I love them all, truly. I get along with my husband much easier than those I work with, bc of the context of our relationships. Being around so many ESFJs has been a FORCE OF NATURE. I am usually on guard around those co-workers, but I understand where they are coming from and that is usually all it takes for me. My survival has been thinking concretely when my husband gets frustrated, bc his frustrations are always, without fail, bc he is misinterpreting me. Evidently Concrete thinking (him) + abstract talk (me) = offensive concrete nonsense. The other night I realized what my husband thought I was saying and laughed. Then I explained what I was really saying from an abstract perspective, emphasizing the fact that there was NO purpose to my thinking out loud other than curiosity and imagination. My husband said, ah, that's right. You guys don't get a lot done. That's why you are a counselor. And we both laughed.

  10. #20
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    I'm an ENFJ (male) married to an ESFJ. We have a beautiful marriage and a ton of fun. An ESFJ needs a lot of emotional support, which an ENFJ can give. An ENFJ needs approval and to feel loved, and an ESFJ is great at that.

    My wife could never be with any of the NT categories. It would seriously destroy her. Even when I go into abstract mode, sometimes it can frustrate her. My Intuitive nature is pretty extreme. But it's all about developing that ability to not only be intuitive. I have a chemistry background and have studied a lot in my life, being 25 and just now graduating with my masters degree. I know how to pay attention to the details, I just have to. So I draw upon that to help her hear what I'm saying. And it's not like I can never do my intuitive thing. My wife actually admires me for the way I can see people's motivations and stuff. But she does a lot that I could never do too, such as thriving on organizing the little details.

    She is the most loyal person ever. She does everything in her power to take care of me. She balances me, because I look out for us 5 years down the road, and looks out for us in the moment. I can be manipulative and rip her sometimes. She is so loyal and forgiving though.

    It's about maturity, forgiveness, commitment, and love. But what relationship isn't?

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