[INFJ] INTJ guy in a situation with an ENFP girl and an INFP girl

[INTJguy123]

oh yes, I got that your roommate is a guy. I mean... she deflected your invitation.

Sometimes, as an INFP, I have trouble with someone being so direct, and I could see myself deflecting someone out of self-protection. Maybe that's the case? But again, we can't read her mind....and we can't pretend to know.

You never know what the other person is thinking or what they're going through. Maybe you caught her in a moment of self-pity and she's consumed with feeling lousy about herself? Or maybe as Earthtrekker says, she needs a little time? I hope that's the case.

Oh ok I see what you're saying. Definitely seems like deflection. The only other thing I can think of is maybe it was her way of trying to get me to be more open about my overall intentions and why exactly I wanted to go out with her and why art? Because seriously, she had to have known that I would be like WTF at the thought of going with my roommate

I'm baffled. Really. As stated in my earlier post, though, most INFPs don't throw out those kind of signals lightly, so if the signals stopped or waned after that night at the bar seeing you pay attention to and leave with another girl despite her signals, some application of my earlier hypothetical reasoning might indeed stand. In that event, you're probably going to have to address it in some way in order to fix it, because self-protection mode likely set-in. Otherwise, if she's genuinely not interested, try to find someone not dense enough to let an opportunity like such a discriminating guy directly stating his intentions go by. You risk catching a bad case of stupid from her otherwise.

The signals only increased after that night haha. Or so I thought. Who knows

I read your first post and your last post. My opinion follows.

Don't admit defeat just yet. She now knows you are interested, however, she may be suspicious about your intentions. If she is and has been interested in you she undoubtedly noticed you went home with the enfp that night at the bar. If she is friends with said enfp she may be avoiding you if her friend is attracted to you. If she does not know the enfp, she may be concerned that the enfp was a conquest and she doesn't want to get involved in a fling. Do give her a bit of time and space if she needs it, don't push her on the issue. Just continue being honest, friendly and open with her. After a bit of time if she still gives you the cold shoulder, she may need to know that you didn't involve yourself with the enfp because of your interest in her, or she may not interested in you and you misread the signs. At that point, ask her if that is the case and what you can do about it (only do this if you are really pursuing a meaningful relationship with her or else you are wasting both your time). If she doesn't give you a chance, leave her alone and stay out of the friendzone. Good luck in grad school!

Thanks but I'm confident the ENFP thing didn't end up factoring into the equation. I've been pretty obvious with my attentions afterwards as well


Oh well, we'll see what happens. I'm not very eager about this anymore. I put myself out there and am proud of my actions..no regrets.

 

[CreativeCait]

Obviously I'm not her, so I can't tell you what she's thinking but this might be relevant to the INFP personality type.

For myself, when I'm interested in someone I watch them closely to try and see what kind of person they are. This is why I hang back at the start. I want them to truly reveal who they are to me when they think I'm not interested. Eg: if I showed a lot of initial interest they would try to present their best selves and mask the bits of themselves they don't want others to see. I know, its weird...I don't even know that its really effective...

Anyways, if I was in this stage and I saw the guy I was interested in a) not talk to me or make a move and b) hook up with another girl I would be discouraged. I would assume a) that his feelings were not that strong for me b) that he's not looking for a serious relationship c) that we have different values so it might not work out. I should also add that competition completely turns me off.

In my further interactions with this guy, I would not take him seriously and question whether he was deeply genuinely interested or looking for fun only. I would treat any advances lightly because I don't want to get hurt by him. I might feel incredibly confused and conflicted. I would be looking for signs as to what his true intentions were with me.

As I see it, there's still a chance and opportunity. I wouldn't give up on it just yet. She gave you her number and she didn't flat out say no. Personally, if I got the msgs from you and I wasn't interested I would have flat out told you (kindly) because I wouldn't want to hurt your feeings or lead you on. Also she has no idea you are serious about her and looking for more than just 'fun'. I think she needs to feel safe, that she can trust you and that you will handle her heart well. I would wait a bit and then try again making it more obvious.

When a guy tells me all the reasons they are into me, why they think I'm special and what they want from me (to get to know me, to get close to me, how they are serious about me) I melt
At that point I'd definately agree to a date if I was into them.

ps: she might have felt bad (Fi) that you had to go alone and mentioned your housemate going with you to ease that feeling, even though it was a weird thing to say. I've done similarly awkward social things because my Fi was making me uncomfortable. She might have felt better knowing she wasn't preventing you from doing something you loved because she couldn't do it with you. And was comforted by the fact that you wouldn't be lonely and if you didn't go that it wouldn't be her fault.

 

[kevinlivecomau]

As a fellow INTJ, just from personal experience, I have had better runs with ENFPs than INFPs.

 

[xenaprincess]

As a fellow INTJ, just from personal experience, I have had better runs with ENFPs than INFPs.

ENFP's are more direct and better verbal communicators. I can see how INFPs are difficult to read because there is so much going on inside (some of it very confused!)

 

[Mia.]

Obviously I'm not her, so I can't tell you what she's thinking but this might be relevant to the INFP personality type.

For myself, when I'm interested in someone I watch them closely to try and see what kind of person they are. This is why I hang back at the start. I want them to truly reveal who they are to me when they think I'm not interested. Eg: if I showed a lot of initial interest they would try to present their best selves and mask the bits of themselves they don't want others to see. I know, its weird...I don't even know that its really effective...

Anyways, if I was in this stage and I saw the guy I was interested in a) not talk to me or make a move and b) hook up with another girl I would be discouraged. I would assume a) that his feelings were not that strong for me b) that he's not looking for a serious relationship c) that we have different values so it might not work out. I should also add that competition completely turns me off.

In my further interactions with this guy, I would not take him seriously and question whether he was deeply genuinely interested or looking for fun only. I would treat any advances lightly because I don't want to get hurt by him. I might feel incredibly confused and conflicted. I would be looking for signs as to what his true intentions were with me.

As I see it, there's still a chance and opportunity. I wouldn't give up on it just yet. She gave you her number and she didn't flat out say no. Personally, if I got the msgs from you and I wasn't interested I would have flat out told you (kindly) because I wouldn't want to hurt your feeings or lead you on. Also she has no idea you are serious about her and looking for more than just 'fun'. I think she needs to feel safe, that she can trust you and that you will handle her heart well. I would wait a bit and then try again making it more obvious.

When a guy tells me all the reasons they are into me, why they think I'm special and what they want from me (to get to know me, to get close to me, how they are serious about me) I melt
At that point I'd definately agree to a date if I was into them.

ps: she might have felt bad (Fi) that you had to go alone and mentioned your housemate going with you to ease that feeling, even though it was a weird thing to say. I've done similarly awkward social things because my Fi was making me uncomfortable. She might have felt better knowing she wasn't preventing you from doing something you loved because she couldn't do it with you. And was comforted by the fact that you wouldn't be lonely and if you didn't go that it wouldn't be her fault.

This is a great post and all extremely accurate.

It’s hard to know what is going on. I’m very proud of you for putting yourself out there. Please don’t let it dissuade you from INFPs... they have many strengths to compensate for their shyness and annoyingly enigmatic disposition, often including deep loyalty, vivid inner worlds that their most trusted get to see, and understanding, and each one is very different.

If case studies would prove helpful, Liv Tyler plays an INFP (sx/sp) who goes into self-protection mode at the end of the movie Onegin (conveniently opposite an INTJ).

 

[Zarathustra]

*is going to have to check this thread out -- looks like gold...*

 

[Cellmold]

Im going to have to watch Onegin thanks to [MENTION=15004]mia_infp[/MENTION].

 

[Mia.]

Im going to have to watch Onegin thanks to [MENTION=15004]mia_infp[/MENTION].

It's a great movie, very well done. Provides great character examples of INFP sx/sp and INTJ sx/sp, as well as various S types.

 

[INTJguy123]

Ok so I'm not sure how to act if I see her around now. Leave her alone? Act like nothing happened? Send her a random text every now and then like I would with a friend? I'm not emotionally affected anymore so that's not an issue. Just don't know to react socially I guess. The only weird thing is that summer vacation is in 2 weeks and I'm going away the whole time (and this did come up after I asked what she was up to this summer).

Just in case that she is interested, it would be nice to know before August whether a potential exists haha. Which is why I thought a casual date would be pretty harmless. I didn't make it out to be a romantic and huge deal or anything. Just wanted to explore her on a deeper level away from school on a nice Saturday afternoon. Don't really understand the whole self protect thing at this point. A first date seems pretty harmless in that regard in my viewpoint. What's the worst that could've happened? The summer break could've diffused even the most awkward and horrific date possible.

PS I don't know if this matters, but after she said that she wasn't planning on doing anything this weekend, I just said "I think we should go out tomorrow". She seemed caught off guard (which I understand) and was like "yeah?" and I was like "yup..." and told her my plan. So technically I didn't "ask" so maybe she thought I was being arrogant or something?

 

[Mia.]

PS I don't know if this matters, but after she said that she wasn't planning on doing anything this weekend, I just said "I think we should go out tomorrow". She seemed caught off guard (which I understand) and was like "yeah?" and I was like "yup..." and told her my plan. So technically I didn't "ask" so maybe she thought I was being arrogant or something?

Of course the “everyone is different” caveat applies, but FWIW I wouldn’t worry about this part. I actually strongly prefer this style. My husband “asked” me out using this style, hehe. It’s very TJ and direct and yummytastic.

 

[AgentF]

this is torture.

[MENTION=15593]INTJguy123[/MENTION]: actions matter. and in my opinion, the INFP gave a pretty clear message: she is in no rush to meet you halfway. who knows what her reasons are but text replies like "haha" and "yeah" are standard fare lukewarm responses.

all you can do is decide how far you're wiling to take this. i see that you put your cards on the table (earlier than many INTJs i've known) and she didn't exactly respond enthusiastically. do you want to pursue someone who doesn't have the communication skills or certitude to respond to a red-blooded man's clear expression of interest?

ETA: what does it matter how you act when you see her around? if your feelings are no longer involved. if they are (and i somehow suspect vestiges remain, after all, you're still open to her interest): be yourself but let her come to you. detach, get on with your life, stop thinking about this. people worth having don't make themselves unconquerable.

 

[INTJguy123]

Indeed I am trying to make a judgement on her character, but feel like it may be a bit premature so I'm attempting to be patient. A couple of people have mentioned that I have laid out my cards, and I'm wondering if that's true. All I've said is that I wanted to spend time with her and learn about her because she is incredibly interesting and implied that I wanted to discuss how art can make me feel (hoping she would assume that I want to know how and if art can move her). From an INTJs perspective (or from someone very familiar with INTJs), that is exposing a ridiculous amount of vulnerability. But since she doesn't know this about me, could an INFP interpret my messages as "luke warm" as well? Just trying to see if I need to be even more direct soon

 

[Mia.]

Indeed I am trying to make a judgement on her character, but feel like it may be a bit premature so I'm attempting to be patient. A couple of people have mentioned that I have laid out my cards, and I'm wondering if that's true. All I've said is that I wanted to spend time with her and learn about her because she is incredibly interesting and implied that I wanted to discuss how art can make me feel (hoping she would assume that I want to know how and if art can move her). From an INTJs perspective (or from someone very familiar with INTJs), that is exposing a ridiculous amount of vulnerability. But since she doesn't know this about me, could an INFP interpret my messages as "luke warm" as well? Just trying to see if I need to be even more direct soon

To me, that is a lot of vulnerability for anyone, and the message was clear. I think you've done wonderfully. If you're sure the ENFP thing isn't a factor as you've said, I think the ball is in her court, and as I said, if she's not bright enough to take you up on it, find another INFP who will.

 

[INTJguy123]

To me, that is a lot of vulnerability for anyone, and the message was clear. I think you've done wonderfully. If you're sure the ENFP thing isn't a factor as you've said, I think the ball is in her court, and as I said, if she's not bright enough to take you up on it, find another INFP who will.

It makes me so happy to hear this! Thanks!! I guess the fact that it was over text message makes it seem "easier" to me. I wanted so badly to look at her in the eyes and say it instead...but I just kept chickening out

Now when you say the ball is in her court, does that mean that she needs to initiate an interaction with me? Or that it is her turn to open up a bit and that I should go back to approaching her. Again...the whole 2 week timeline is confusing me

EDIT for agentfurrina: I guess when I say my feelings are not involved, I meant it more like my Te has regained control whereas before I was being driven by Fi. More like...I will once again be able to act cool and calm and less sensitive. I view my feelings towards her now like schrodinger's cat. I simultaneously like her and dislike (romantically) right now. I want to open the box, but don't want to somehow lose the box by acting socially disgraceful

 

[AgentF]

why do you care if she interprets them as lukewarm? people think that interest, even clearly or passionately expressed, does foundational work in a healthy relationship.

it doesn't. it's just opens the door. see if she has the interest and emotional intelligence to walk through it.

and i understand how you're using your Te but imo you're trying to solve the wrong problem grasshopper.

 

[INTJguy123]

why do you care if she interprets them as lukewarm? people think that interest, even clearly or passionately expressed, does foundational work in a healthy relationship.

it doesn't. it's just opens the door. see if she has the interest and emotional intelligence to walk through it.

Well...if a huge moment of vulnerability from me is not appreciated for what it is...well that just hurts. Biiiiggg time. Even if not reciprocated, a simple acknowledgment of my bravery would mean a tremendous amount. Her reply of "aww that's sweet" is so ambiguous. It's either a crushing blow or her version of acknowledging my rare moment of openness. So I guess that's why I care.

Also, I think what you said about the expression of interest merely opening doors, may not fully apply here with 2 strongly expressed introverts. Especially 2 types that are surprisingly similarly secretive. A lot of reading between the lines may be necessary I feel like. Maybe that's more applicable to extroverts? Just trying to learn. I don't have any romantic experience with introverts. Pretty much an ENFP magnet over here. You guys just make it so fucking easy to be my awesome self

 

[Mia.]

Well...if a huge moment of vulnerability from me is not appreciated for what it is...well that just hurts. Biiiiggg time. Even if not reciprocated, a simple acknowledgment of my bravery would mean a tremendous amount. Her reply of "aww that's sweet" is so ambiguous. It's either a crushing blow or her version of acknowledging my rare moment of openness. So I guess that's why I care.

Also, I think what you said about the expression of interest merely opening doors, may not fully apply here with 2 strongly expressed introverts. Especially 2 types that are surprisingly similarly secretive. A lot of reading between the lines may be necessary I feel like. Maybe that's more applicable to extroverts? Just trying to learn. I don't have any romantic experience with introverts. Pretty much an ENFP magnet over here. You guys just make it so fucking easy to be my awesome self

Allright, that's it... no one hurts a sweet little adorably vulnerable INTJ and gets away with it on my watch. You want I should have .... a "talk".... with her? Say the word man....

 

[INTJguy123]

and i understand how you're using your Te but imo you're trying to solve the wrong problem grasshopper.

What problem am I trying to solve? Honestly I'm trying to solve anything that is solvable haha. And what problem should I be focusing on?

 

[AgentF]

Her reply of "aww that's sweet" is so ambiguous. It's either a crushing blow or her version of acknowledging my rare moment of openness. So I guess that's why I care.

the bold is what i'd say to something i've somehow objectified. like a basket of kittens or a malformed ashtray presented by a toddler...or a man whose interest will be kept at arm's length. but that's just an ENFP talkin. who knows whether the boiling depths of INFP passion find their external expression in "aww..."

Also, I think what you said about the expression of interest merely opening doors, may not fully apply here with 2 strongly expressed introverts. Especially 2 types that are surprisingly similarly secretive.

agreed, and bon chance, truly. the mechanics of introvert-on-introvert relationships are like watching a naked PGA tournament.

(having said that, the sweetest marriage i know of is my INFP little sis and her INFJ hub. but they were friends for two years first, and talked about marriage when they finally got around to having their first date.)

i should know, i was there.

Pretty much an ENFP magnet over here. You guys just make it so fucking easy to be my awesome self

aww...

 

[AgentF]

What problem am I trying to solve? Honestly I'm trying to solve anything that is solvable haha. And what problem should I be focusing on?

i think the INTJs should have a crack at this one. ENFPs use Te perhaps a bit differently when it comes to relationships...but what the hell do i know. i just think worrying about how to act around someone is a non-problem. you should always be yourself but perhaps that's bumper-sticker talk.