[INFJ] INTJ guy in a situation with an ENFP girl and an INFP girl

[Santosha]

When you say that you've studied with INFP, what did this entail? Did you talk to each other at all? How did the studying come about? I would have to understand what kind of exchanges you've had so far to feel good about giving my opinion on how you should approach her. Direct is nice, but totally out of left field AND direct can throw someone off, specially shy INFP.

The good thing is that most INFP's can extract quite a bit from minimal interaction, enough to fill their heads for days. The bad thing is that if your INFP has done this and was then confronted with a reality where she made herself more available to you and you not only didn't take the opportunity but also spent the night chatting up ENFP, it could be a harsh blow. She may have mentally put a break on any potential you had. I'd provide new info to her that shows you are still interested, and pretty quick like Marmie said.

 

[INTJguy123]

Thanks xenaprincess, your words are increasing my confidence. As an INTJ I am 100% confident in absolutely everything in life...except for..FEMALES! And I think you have picked up on that so thanks for the encouragement. The funniest part of all this is how crazy my rational brain thinks I'm being right now. The main reason that I think that she's into me is because she's acting like she's NOT into me. Makes my Ni-Te chuckle and tell me I'm delusional. My Fi is saying F that, trust in me only. Any other time I would go with my logical self, but taking a chance on this girl is absolutely worth demolishing my ego over. This would be the first time I would do something like this with such low confidence (read: anything less than 100% haha). Anyways, whenever you had idealized crushes on guys and appeared unapproachable, were you hoping they would secretly see past this exterior and just approach you? Would that have been impressive because it shows that the guy had a strong enough intuitive connection to "read your mind/feelings"? And what exactly is an idealized crush? Is that what I have right now? Btw I feel ridonkulous using the word "crush" at age 26

mia_infp, much thanks for the lengthy and well thought out post. As far as the INFP that night, she was not acting very approachable so I hope that she doesn't feel like she put herself out there and was rejected. Hopefully

One huge thing that I just thought of! Isn't it pretty random that the ENFP approaches me like the week after she had likely seen me around the INFP? I'm now thinking that she felt the pressure to compete. Because believe me, this was out of NOWHERE and she was being very bold (even for an ENFP). SO, if someone as socially inept realizes this possibility, I'm thinking that the INFP could realize this too. Could she be thinking "hmm...this guy has been paying attention to me suddenly and now this other girl is trying to get him for herself! What is he supposed to do, just ignore her? There's nothing wrong with him just talking to her". I'm very interested in what you guys think about this, even if it's just for curiosity's sake since there's likely little practical use of figuring it out

 

[xenaprincess]

It is difficult to reason out why people do what they do. You can't know, unless you ask them. So trying to figure out the reasons for the ENFP is not worth the time. She could have felt sociable that night and and it had nothing to do with you.

In my crushes, I never wished really wished the fella would approach me. I didn't have ideas about 'us together'. It was more about elevating these people onto pedestals (good lord). I idealized certain fellas for their artistic talent and a physical attraction. It had nothing to do with me or how they treated me, whether they were even good people. They could have been axe murderers.

Sounds like you're the one with the crush Try to get to know her more. The more you think about it, the more scary it becomes.

 

[Mia.]

Thanks xenaprincess, your words are increasing my confidence. As an INTJ I am 100% confident in absolutely everything in life...except for..FEMALES! And I think you have picked up on that so thanks for the encouragement. The funniest part of all this is how crazy my rational brain thinks I'm being right now. The main reason that I think that she's into me is because she's acting like she's NOT into me. Makes my Ni-Te chuckle and tell me I'm delusional. My Fi is saying F that, trust in me only. Any other time I would go with my logical self, but taking a chance on this girl is absolutely worth demolishing my ego over. This would be the first time I would do something like this with such low confidence (read: anything less than 100% haha). Anyways, whenever you had idealized crushes on guys and appeared unapproachable, were you hoping they would secretly see past this exterior and just approach you? Would that have been impressive because it shows that the guy had a strong enough intuitive connection to "read your mind/feelings"? And what exactly is an idealized crush? Is that what I have right now? Btw I feel ridonkulous using the word "crush" at age 26

mia_infp, much thanks for the lengthy and well thought out post. As far as the INFP that night, she was not acting very approachable so I hope that she doesn't feel like she put herself out there and was rejected. Hopefully

One huge thing that I just thought of! Isn't it pretty random that the ENFP approaches me like the week after she had likely seen me around the INFP? I'm now thinking that she felt the pressure to compete. Because believe me, this was out of NOWHERE and she was being very bold (even for an ENFP). SO, if someone as socially inept realizes this possibility, I'm thinking that the INFP could realize this too. Could she be thinking "hmm...this guy has been paying attention to me suddenly and now this other girl is trying to get him for herself! What is he supposed to do, just ignore her? There's nothing wrong with him just talking to her". I'm very interested in what you guys think about this, even if it's just for curiosity's sake since there's likely little practical use of figuring it out

I don’t know if other INFPs are this way, but the following is what goes on with me. I don’t withdraw (I don’t withdraw consciously anyway… it’s just something that seems to happen as a protective mechanism) in order to test whether he can read my mind. It’s not about whether he knows what is going on in my head – it’s about what is going on in his. If I withdraw, and take out that variable, in my mind his behavior will then be more pure, and will show his actual heart and intent. If he approaches, he must really like me, and it is safe to like him as well. It’s not something I’m creating or forcing, and thus might not be real.

In terms of what the INFP thought of the ENFP’s behavior, I have no idea. What has been said by others in terms of paying special attention/priority to her and being careful not to give the impression you’re into other women is good advice.

In my crushes, I never wished really wished the fella would approach me. I didn't have ideas about 'us together'. It was more about elevating these people onto pedestals (good lord). I idealized certain fellas for their artistic talent and a physical attraction. It had nothing to do with me or how they treated me, whether they were even good people. They could have been axe murderers.
.

Hmm. That’s interesting, because I’m the opposite. Perhaps our tritypes and/or instinctual stackings are different? I’m always very realistic in the selection of my crushes. I won’t crush on someone unless I see real potential for “us together.” In fact that’s what usually propels it into a crush. If the attraction is not returned for example, the crush will quickly wither on my part. Therefore I do want him to approach me, so I know to allow my feelings to grow, since I value myself too much to pine away for someone who doesn’t return my feelings. And character/morals/integrity, or the belief that they possess/strive for these, is an absolute must in order for a crush to develop.

I also have a strange ability to similarly put them on a pedestal, but not in the same way. I am not blind to the crush’s flaws. I fully see the flaws, but see them as beautiful and wonderful regardless because I see everything else. I have a realistic optimism/appreciation of the whole package. The pedestal part is constancy in seeing their goodness and praiseworthiness despite the rough edges.

 

[Starry]

One huge thing that I just thought of! Isn't it pretty random that the ENFP approaches me like the week after she had likely seen me around the INFP? I'm now thinking that she felt the pressure to compete. Because believe me, this was out of NOWHERE and she was being very bold (even for an ENFP).

While NFs may hold themselves to ridiculous standards...we are not all that competitive (as a group) with others. In fact, for most of us, our 'default setting' is to defer to others...(which often becomes a point of frustration for us for even if we would like to abandon this 'automatic response' we find we cannot)...and ENFPs are no exception to this. In other words...I highly doubt the ENFP had somehow noticed your interest in the INFP and was subsquently 'competing for your affections'. So when you say..."Isn't it pretty random that the ENFP..." you need to stop right there. ENFPs are random...that is all. Had she actually noticed you taking interest in the INFP she would have found some other 'fish to play with'.

SO, if someone as socially inept realizes this possibility, I'm thinking that the INFP could realize this too. Could she be thinking "hmm...this guy has been paying attention to me suddenly and now this other girl is trying to get him for herself! What is he supposed to do, just ignore her? There's nothing wrong with him just talking to her". I'm very interested in what you guys think about this, even if it's just for curiosity's sake since there's likely little practical use of figuring it out.

Do you know who FireShield is on this site yet? I think it is important to anticipate possible obstacles and outcomes...and make a few allowances for those in our minds...but there does come a time when we have to stop thinking and start acting. Don't take this to the point where you are attempting to think for her. I had an Ni dom do this to me and it was the downfall to our relationship (as he missed the mark by a long-shot). Be brave and take the time to actually find out what she thinks - from her. She is her own person with her own thoughts that you cannot access without her assistance and she deserves to be treated accordingly.

 

[Betty Blue]

Are you fireshields friend?

 

[Lady_X]

One important thing to note is Nfps are some of the most understanding people ever. If someone we like approaches us awkwardly we'll just think its adorable and like you all the more so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[INTJguy123]

Haha yeah I realize that some of my questions are ridiculous and did not mean to imply that the answers would be useful in the real world. Rest assured that my behavior will be based on actual interactions, and i am 100% about open communication and would not belittle her values and individuality by thinking for her. I'm just a curious dude that loves any and all information and considering all possibilities. I guess I'm just trying to extract as much as I can from what I know (next to little; hello Ni) in order to boost my confidence

Thanks for the advice and putting up with my absolute ridiculousness haha. I'll keep everyone posted as to how this goes

Edit: LadyX, glad to hear that!!

 

[Starry]

I'm just a curious dude that loves any and all information and considering all possibilities. I guess I'm just trying to extract as much as I can from what I know (next to little; hello Ni) in order to boost my confidence

That's awesome INTJguy. But I think it is important to remember that information...is information...and while it can certainly assist us in making decisions and help us 'look like we know what we are doing' haha...it just isn't where confidence comes from. It really isn't (believe me...I'm NOT talking above you here. I fall into these same kinds of traps). Confidence comes from knowing your own strengths and awesomeness...and knowing that you can handle what comes your way because you know you are a strong and worthy human being...(whoa am I sounding NF cheesy right now? - but I do mean what I say). I'm wishing you the best of everything.

 

[xenaprincess]

That's awesome INTJguy. But I think it is important to remember that information...is information...and while it can certainly assist us in making decisions and help us 'look like we know what we are doing' haha...it just isn't where confidence comes from. It really isn't (believe me...I'm NOT talking above you here. I fall into these same kinds of traps). Confidence comes from knowing your own strengths and awesomeness...and knowing that you can handle what comes your way because you know you are a strong and worthy human being...(whoa am I sounding NF cheesy right now? - but I do mean what I say). I'm wishing you the best of everything.

 

[INTJguy123]

OK FINALLY an update. Things have been going slow. We've continued studying together off and on for the past few weeks. I've had trouble processing the intensity of how I feel and fully being myself when around her. We have had some moments of good conversation and then it would get a super quiet, I guess due to my attraction for her (which I have confirmed is real as well as strong) and hopefully hers for me? The whole time I have just wanted to tell her how awesome she is.

After thinking and thinking about how I should approach the situation, I finally just asked her if she had any plans this weekend, she said no, I asked out her for tomorrow, she said yes although she didn't seem too excited but I figured she maybe was trying to keep hidden how she felt about it. Keep it mind that I haven't verbally told her how I feel about her or anything yet as I was hoping to maybe try that on the actual date

After I get her number, I text her a few hours after she left and asked if she was feeling any better (because she told me she had a headache earlier). She texted back yes thanks...and that she had to cancel on me because of a friend's going away party (I asked her out to a local outdoor art festival in town + food)...but she said she hopes I have fun (which I found ridiculous that she thought I would actually go to something like this by myself and was surprised that she didn't get that I wanted her company first and foremost and wanted to do something "special" other than dinner and a movie etc).

SO I basically just wanted to right there and then make my intentions clear. I flat out texted back that I'm not gonna go to the festival alone and that I was more interested in spending time with her and learning more about her because I think she is incredibly interesting (in those words). She texted back "aw thats sweet" and suggested that I ask my roommate to go with me because she would hate to see me miss out. Then I said that he's not someone I would feel comfortable talking to about how pieces of art make me feel, I guess in an attempt to convey to her that I want to open myself to her, that she has earned my trust, and that my inner convictions are something I share very selectively. I followed the sentence with a "haha" to mask my pain and received the same 4 letters in return.

...I just don't know what happened and feel terrible...

 

[Starry]

OK FINALLY an update. Things have been going slow. We've continued studying together off and on for the past few weeks. I've had trouble processing the intensity of how I feel and fully being myself when around her. We have had some moments of good conversation and then it would get a super quiet, I guess due to my attraction for her (which I have confirmed is real as well as strong) and hopefully hers for me? The whole time I have just wanted to tell her how awesome she is.

After thinking and thinking about how I should approach the situation, I finally just asked her if she had any plans this weekend, she said no, I asked out her for tomorrow, she said yes although she didn't seem too excited but I figured she maybe was trying to keep hidden how she felt about it. Keep it mind that I haven't verbally told her how I feel about her or anything yet as I was hoping to maybe try that on the actual date

After I get her number, I text her a few hours after she left and asked if she was feeling any better (because she told me she had a headache earlier). She texted back yes thanks...and that she had to cancel on me because of a friend's going away party (I asked her out to a local outdoor art festival in town + food)...but she said she hopes I have fun (which I found ridiculous that she thought I would actually go to something like this by myself and was surprised that she didn't get that I wanted her company first and foremost and wanted to do something "special" other than dinner and a movie etc).

SO I basically just wanted to right there and then make my intentions clear. I flat out texted back that I'm not gonna go to the festival alone and that I was more interested in spending time with her and learning more about her because I think she is incredibly interesting (in those words). She texted back "aw thats sweet" and suggested that I ask my roommate to go with me because she would hate to see me miss out. Then I said that he's not someone I would feel comfortable talking to about how pieces of art make me feel, I guess in an attempt to convey to her that I want to open myself to her, that she has earned my trust, and that my inner convictions are something I share very selectively. I followed the sentence with a "haha" to mask my pain and received the same 4 letters in return.

...I just don't know what happened and feel terrible...

Take the ENFP off the back burner.

 

[INTJguy123]

Take the ENFP off the back burner.

Huh? I haven't talked to the ENFP since that night, other than an occasional hello. Not interested in her at all in a romantic way...figured that out after a few days

 

[Starry]

Huh? I haven't talked to the ENFP since that night, other than an occasional hello. Not interested in her at all in a romantic way...figured that out after a few days

That was just my way of saying...something doesn't sit well with me with regards to her response to you asking her out (geez so serious). I'll let you talk with the INFPs now.

 

[xenaprincess]

oh! how strange?!
when you were studying with each other you were studying...with each other? it was just the two of you?

hm. I think since she texted about your roommate, I don't feel it's a good sign. I hate to say that. I can only infer it because...women tend to read subtext very easily, whereas guys tend to need more walloping on the head.

On the other hand, who knows? Maybe she needs a little time. But I prefer to err on the side of caution because I know from 1st hand experience that holding a torch for someone is pretty much the most painful thing you can do to yourself.

I'm so sorry. I wish I could give you a hug.

I think you're great. You have great values and you're looking for something and someone real. Keep doing that and you will find that person. I know that sounds very hollow at this time, but it's true. If you can, please tell yourself that you'll be okay (which you will be). I hope you see this experience as a good thing, and the next time will be easier. And the time after that.

I know that this is a grey area and INTJ's dislike grey area like the plague. But if you can possibly do it, please don't ask or text her anything tonight. Go out, run 3 miles in bare feet, go watch a movie, anything. Because if she does need a little time, your texting her would be bad. And if she doesn't need a little time, your texting would also be bad.

 

[INTJguy123]

oh! how strange?!
when you were studying with each other you were studying...with each other? it was just the two of you?

hm. I think since she texted about your roommate, I don't feel it's a good sign. I hate to say that. I can only infer it because...women tend to read subtext very easily, whereas guys tend to need more walloping on the head.

On the other hand, who knows? Maybe she needs a little time. But I prefer to err on the side of caution because I know from 1st hand experience that holding a torch for someone is pretty much the most painful thing you can do to yourself.

I'm so sorry. I wish I could give you a hug.

I think you're great. You have great values and you're looking for something and someone real. Keep doing that and you will find that person. I know that sounds very hollow at this time, but it's true. If you can, please tell yourself that you'll be okay (which you will be). I hope you see this experience as a good thing, and the next time will be easier. And the time after that.

I know that this is a grey area and INTJ's dislike grey area like the plague. But if you can possibly do it, please don't ask or text her anything tonight. Go out, run 3 miles in bare feet, go watch a movie, anything. Because if she does need a little time, your texting her would be bad. And if she doesn't need a little time, your texting would also be bad.

I'm not sure I understand your comment about my roommate and the whole subtext thing. Maybe I wasn't clear, but my roommate is a guy. Thanks for the input!

 

[Tiger Owl]

I read your first post and your last post. My opinion follows.

Don't admit defeat just yet. She now knows you are interested, however, she may be suspicious about your intentions. If she is and has been interested in you she undoubtedly noticed you went home with the enfp that night at the bar. If she is friends with said enfp she may be avoiding you if her friend is attracted to you. If she does not know the enfp, she may be concerned that the enfp was a conquest and she doesn't want to get involved in a fling. Do give her a bit of time and space if she needs it, don't push her on the issue. Just continue being honest, friendly and open with her. After a bit of time if she still gives you the cold shoulder, she may need to know that you didn't involve yourself with the enfp because of your interest in her, or she may not interested in you and you misread the signs. At that point, ask her if that is the case and what you can do about it (only do this if you are really pursuing a meaningful relationship with her or else you are wasting both your time). If she doesn't give you a chance, leave her alone and stay out of the friendzone. Good luck in grad school!

 

[xenaprincess]

I'm not sure I understand your comment about my roommate and the whole subtext thing. Maybe I wasn't clear, but my roommate is a guy. Thanks for the input!

oh yes, I got that your roommate is a guy. I mean... she deflected your invitation.

Sometimes, as an INFP, I have trouble with someone being so direct, and I could see myself deflecting someone out of self-protection. Maybe that's the case? But again, we can't read her mind....and we can't pretend to know.

You never know what the other person is thinking or what they're going through. Maybe you caught her in a moment of self-pity and she's consumed with feeling lousy about herself? Or maybe as Earthtrekker says, she needs a little time? I hope that's the case.

 

[Mia.]

I'm baffled. Really. As stated in my earlier post, though, most INFPs don't throw out those kind of signals lightly, so if the signals stopped or waned after that night at the bar seeing you pay attention to and leave with another girl despite her signals, some application of my earlier hypothetical reasoning might indeed stand. In that event, you're probably going to have to address it in some way in order to fix it, because self-protection mode likely set-in. Otherwise, if she's genuinely not interested, try to find someone not dense enough to let an opportunity like such a discriminating guy directly stating his intentions go by. You risk catching a bad case of stupid from her otherwise.

 

[Tiger Owl]

You risk catching a bad case of stupid from her otherwise.

And penicillin don't cure stupid.