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  1. #71
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    No, English classes have nothing to do with Fe. But I could see that church could teach community Fe values for the greater good of the group, and Care Bears could encourage open emotional expression.

    Nothing this person said is *inherently* Fe though.
    That's what I thought.

  2. #72
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    There are a couple things that seperate Fe and Fi users:

    1. Fe users can feel others emotions better than their own, but yet express their feelings and put them into words more easily. Fi users on the other hand, can feel their own emotions better than others, but yet have trouble putting their feelings into words.

    2. Fe moral values come from an outside source, such as upbringing or possibly their religion. Fi morals come from the inside and are created by that personal individual. It should also be noted that Fi users often lay out their moral values and tell you what they are, much more easily than Fe users can.

    3. Fe is much more into social graces than Fi. Fe users are more likely to be polite, not offend people, and not to go against the group. Fi users don't tend to follow social graces as much, and tend to do things based on their moral values and how they feel about things.

    4. Fe is much more self-sacrificing than Fi. Fi is more concerned about what they want than what others want.
    the part in bold is somewhat true, although the conclusion of the fourth point is not valid.

    For me Fi seeks to resolve the sense of emotional distress caused by cognitive dissonance when my surroundings do not match my internal values for what is right. The resultant stress provokes me to action. However since my values are focused on what is right or wrong for people, very often the internal feeling will force me to act on behalf of other people even when it is not in my best in interest to do so- thus do things that are extremely self sacrificial in nature.

  3. #73
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    the part in bold is somewhat true, although the conclusion of the fourth point is not valid.

    For me Fi seeks to resolve the sense of emotional distress caused by cognitive dissonance when my surroundings do not match my internal values for what is right. The resultant stress provokes me to action. However since my values are focused on what is right or wrong for people, very often the internal feeling will force me to act on behalf of other people even when it is not in my best in interest to do so- thus do things that are extremely self sacrificial in nature.
    Interesting.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Touch is my number one love language. Touch has nothing to do with Fi or Fe. If anything, I would guess it to maybe be more important to people with Se or Si versus Ni or Ne.
    i would like to point out, ive very recently been thinking about this same subject, and arrived to the conclusion you communicate your feelings with where its attached to.

    that means, f function adjecent to s function leads to touch preference more often than f adjecent to n, however, leads to romance preference which i have a strong preference for, even to the point of being a demisexual. (feelings over physical contact, aka being a hopeless romantic.)

    and, it depends which you prefer more: to listen your feelings or relaying them to the next function, like for isfp's you must tap into listening your Te to have more controlled feelings and for better understanding the external world,(and the way you enjoy your feelings, but when expressing them not from outside to in but from inside to out, you use sensing) but enfp's for example do it opposite way, which means well developed enfp can feel authentic with their expressions representing their feelings completely, at times, as long as their Te>Si>Ne chain is intact and Si posesses information/or invents on spot on how to express yourself in an original way.

    also, i have arrived to the consensus, for me, apart from expressivity, interjections are the best verbal way to express my feelings, especially.. when the exclamations used are original, then, i can feel authentic to what i blurt out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    It is qute simple just make categories :

    1. You should not be angry because nothing else couldn't be done
    2. You are depressed because of real reason instead of the some vague reasons (problems in school and work)
    3. Quarter of your belief system is obviously inconsisted with what you embraced tomorrow.
    4. The amount of nervous brake downs in the last month


    etc.


    And then you observe how many times the person will show some of the traits and what will cause them. I mean this is a childlish play for the situations when a NT has nothing to do so ......


    Plus as you probaly already realize this is a perfect way how to annoy an FP. (or scare them when they realize you are cutting their soul apart just to see what it is in there and what provokes them ) Since the last thing they want to is being treated as a "thing" or feeling "naked" around the strangers .
    funny, thats how i treat myself, and i find that idea.. rather enthralling. and i also find being naked in front of others something i normally thrive for, not in a literal sense though. it would be irrational to feel you require some barrier to protect yourself from others, i know it instantly if someone is keeping a part of themselves from me, and i know very well how easy it is to see what happens inside. the difference between open and keeping one of your internal functions to yourself is huge, it instantly labels you on my gray zone when i cant feel your internals, i basically avoid these people as they tend to have ego/aggression issues, generally dangerous and unpredictable due to excess of mental problems caused by stupidity or mental laziness. and no, your Ni is not secret, its very easy to spot as Ni doms and aux's as they generally become confident enough in trusting their Ni, its as if there were always a second set of eyes probing me when im around them. tertiary Ni's generally arent that visible, but recognized from the lack of conscious probing.
    and when ni is fourth, the person seems unreal to me, as if it didnt exist, just some program doing whatever it was programmed to do, seeming completely fake, from outside of this reality. unless they develop their Ni, in which case the results can be rather amazing. but have only met one of such, so the ratio is not looking good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    That is not logic that is lack of belief in "the model".


    For me it makes much more sense to measure the functions with a test .... it is much more empirical and individually correct in my opinion. I have "Fi - limited use" so I dont consider myself to be a Fi user .... or to place more it precisely "I am not a good example of typical Fi usage".


    If the Great one decides to study Fi on me the results could easily be pretty inconclusive or counter-productive in understanding of stronger Fi usage. (what is the actual topic here) So I have phrased my argument this way , even if it might be misleading.
    actually i haave to disagree here, intj's would be the best example of Te-Fi connection out there, as the other options are istj, (generally predators, id stay away from) or extj's, for whose weakness irt is and thus not so much to study but to teach.

    if i were ixfp, id be busy studying intj's to understand te>fi relation since te controls fi in ixfp's as it does on you.

    although those are not my weaknesses, thus i have not much to learn there, and my weakness, si, is something which doesnt take learning from outside but rather from within, and rather resilience to blame yourself for lack of awareness + accept yourself for what material you are. thus i doubt esXj's could teach me anything i couldnt discover on it myself, except mature estj's might. like for example today i forgot to purchase butter, now the salad i bought has to be eaten as it is, but i can prevent this from happening in future by reflecting what i did wrong, which was following my random thoughts instead of thinking what i came to purchase.

  5. #75
    Senior Member Joehobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powderpills View Post
    I'm not sure if I'll be able to explain this the way I'd like to... but I'm going to try.

    My problem is that I hate trying to verbalize my feelings. More than that I feel embrassed to. It feels so fake.

    I cannot even write about things I’m passionate about in a sincere, serious way without it resulting to a situation where I want to go and burn my diary or something. I look at my words and feel like I want to puke, they just feel so fake. Seriousness feels fake. I always use sarcastic or otherwise distant narrator. Books that ignore “show, don’t tell” when it comes to feelings never fail to make me want to puke.

    This has become more of a problem to me lately because I’ve come to understand that if I really want to recover from my depression I have to accept the fact I would really benefit from therapy. The only reason I’m reluctant to go is this problem of mine. I always feel so much worse after having talked about my problems. Like I’ve given away something really precious and become paranoid that someone is going to use the information I’ve given about myself against me somehow or feel like I want to puke because, as said, verbalizing feelings is FAKE to me and I could never even describe the things I feel in words, they are so intense and pure and they should be left just like that.

    Can any other Fi users relate? Is there any way to come around this?
    The one time when I can relate to this is when I was going through alot of emotional turbulence and resorting to numbing out everything.
    Devalued emotions, didn't talk about them, just blocked it out and when someone close demonstrated feelings of love it made me sick.
    I realised that it was a problem when I couldn't relate to people on an emotional level, and trying to feel any sort of emotions
    made me feel physically sick and freaked me out. Eventually I started taking measures to start opening up again, faced what I felt caused me
    to be emotionally blocked in the first place and became more accepting that emotions are important, but they are temporary and do not define you.

    Sounds like you really just need to face some demons of sorts. Therapy may or may not help, it all comes down to how badly you want to turn things around and to actively do it.
    Step by step.

  6. #76
    Member 1AuroraAngel1's Avatar
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    I generally feel this way when I try to verbalize my feelings, but don't experience this when writing and often create poetry about my feelings.

  7. #77
    Senior Member lue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    That's why when I think of IxTJs and their Fi, I think of that dude from Lord of the Rings standing over their tertiary whispering "my precious, my precious" with a paranoid, guarded look toward any "outsiders."
    This is hilarious.

  8. #78

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    I am not embarrassed or anything. It is just a hassle to talk sometimes.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by powderpills View Post
    I'm not sure if I'll be able to explain this the way I'd like to...

    Can any other Fi users relate? Is there any way to come around this?
    I dislike it because others usually hear only a few words and run off on their own little tangents and in the process completely invalidate my actual feelings by saying....ih dont worry I feel like that all the time, shopping helps, or some such trite thing. I'm like....really? You cured existential depression with a new pair of shoes.... knowing full well they have no idea of the power or intensity of my feelings about the world. So yeah, I dont often verbalise because it often leads to frustration at not being able to express a sentiment and have it understood.

    So saying that.....I was quite amazed at the insightful responses to my existential depression thread here, as others really did seem to understand the nature of what I feel. I guess, you've got to pick your audience.

  10. #80
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    I understand this. You put to words one of the earliest feelings I remember experiencing when I was a little kid, not to mention beyond that. And yet, I also have a primordial drive to expose, for deep mirroring - for someone to see me for exactly what is inside here, even if it's not all desirable or good. If it's yucky to put out there, let it be all the way yucky. Either I open up totally or not at all. So, I have always had to make a choice over whether to preserve a feeling's original form and leave it without its reflection, or to express it and risk taking all the weight out of it.

    All things considered, each of the choices has won out about half the time, with context making a big difference. In public, feelings will mostly be kept out of my exterior, although not always. The times they have burst through have been memorable and defining, and I believe that these moments showed my true colors, which is why I may describe myself as being openly temperamental even though numbers-wise it doesn't happen very often. If you're close to me (or if the situation is otherwise conducive), on the other hand, I will relish openness without expecting constant grace from anybody.

    I felt the falseness aspect of this a lot more when I was younger and have eased it by becoming obsessively practiced with language. I feel articulate now in communicating emotions, but the hindsight issue still stands. Reading my old diary entries, for instance, is like nails on a chalkboard - they come off as so shallow and hysterically empty. They served a worthy function at the time, but that time is so over.

    The question of fakeness can also arise because my interests and passions jump around so much save for a few core ones. I'll feel silly for going on so heatedly about a topic that will be dried up in a few months or weeks, and I won't be taken seriously if I do it too many times.

    I feel this kind of fakeness coming off others' expressions frequently, but I don't often bring that up or let it easily mar my feelings about someone because I prefer to err on the side of validation. But too much, and I'll be repelled. It's a creepy sensation that was especially undistilled when I was a child, like I was watching something pathogenic that would infect me if I allowed myself to get caught up in the other's expressed feelings, so I would resist mirroring them. It's a generic quality that triggers this, as if the other person contacted the feelings they're spouting from someone else - someone they neither know nor love. Vulnerability does not trigger it.

    A few people have brought up vulnerability as embarrassing in oneself or others, but that's anathema to me. I will take a lot of shit and risk appearing very ugly in the name of another's or my own right to be vulnerable without shame, or the beauty of it. I can be quite angry or ashamed at myself or another for being weak, but that's not at all the same thing as vulnerability, although the two are popularly confused (I don't think anyone in this thread has confused them, though).

    Not all outward expressions of feeling give this sensation, however. When it's realistic, it can be very attractive.
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