[Jungian Cognitive Functions] FPs: yes, we CAN tell the difference between someone being natural vs fake

[garbage]

It's always funny to call out someone's failed bullshit detector when they think that they have called out bullshit when they, in fact, have not.

Especially when they think that they know me better than I do. When I continue to listen to their theories about me, they ironically don't detect why I'm listening and what I'm gathering, which can range from entertainment value or insight about them.

We must all have some confidence in our abilities in order to stay sane in this world, and the ability to detect bullshit is no different.

 

[Starry]

yes, Fi CAN do this. it isn't hard to tell who is putting up a front/fulfilling a social role/being fake vs someone who is truly doing what they feel like. that's right, we CAN see through to the inner essence of a person. anyone who says we either does not have strong Fi or doesn't trust theirs.

Yesterday...another member said to me:

If you are an ENFP, then your'e Fi. (Like me).

Fi users often attach personal feelings to their "works". In this case you do seem attached to the outcome of your "great deal of thought".

Just a word of caution.

^^^what was odd about receiving that response is that I do not relate to it in the least. For me, being confident I have the *right* answer does not even remotely translate into me somehow having my ego invested in it...or subsequently refusing to take in new information if new information were to present itself. In other words, I can honestly say I do not do the above...but should I? Being an 'Fi user' and all? Should I also be able to readily determine if someone is being fake or not? And if I do not do these things am I not the type I believe I am? I am seriously asking.

 

[CrystalViolet]

So you have become almost hypervigilant then, in watching others in an effort to intercept and protect against being hurt? Do you find your barometer also keeps out those who really would not hurt you as well? Do you have to always fine-tune it, or even find that it is grossly out of whack? Just very curious.



Profilers use behavior to try to get an idea of who they are after, in order to understand someone better. I think that is what most of us use mbti for as well, though Victor makes a good point how mbti can then be used to control others.


It can get all muddled when you start talking about assessing people and judging people. Of course we cannot control our gut instincts and impressions of others. I do it quickly and easily and inadvertently, as do we all. It's part of our animal instinct, to size up body language with our experience to protect ourselves. I think it becomes bad, and a problem, when we then take it a step or two further and judge the essence of the person, or even their underlying character. I think the key is to remember we have every right to judge others' behaviors toward us and toward other people, but if we then judge that person, or their innate character as bad or faulty, we are not only incorrect, but it does a disservice to society at large, and humanity.

Why? Because sometimes people fuck up and do bad things. Judging who they are, or will always be, on past performance/behavior just feels bad, and I know I wouldn't want someone judging my future life/self or who I am, on my past mistakes/behaviors. God wants us to love each other, using the innate love and goodness we have in us, and using His love which surrounds us always, if we allow ourselves to feel it. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Judge not, lest ye be judged. <3 There is always a new day to be better.

That's a fairly fuzzy wuzzy approach to life. Also if some one makes the same mistake over and over, that makes a pattern.
There's a difference to being open and so open and trusting your brains are gonna full out.
I've met a lot of interesting characters in my life, so I wouldn't say I'm judgmental (you are probably going to play semantics), but most have them have been decent characters, although my definition of decent may differ from others. Certainly I've known people with alternative moralities. I've known they were genuine, and for most part, sifted out shady characters. I've been really wrong about two people that I know of, one was for the better, the other for worse. I don't feel like I miss out on valuable relationships. There's not many people I tolerate at the best of times any way.
When I taught English in Korea, because of the massive cultural differences, I was flying blind. I remember getting back on farmilar territory, feeling like I had one of my senses back, and feeling rusty. Did not like. Because I felt blind, I made a massive error in judgement. One that haunts me slightly to this day.
The fine tuning comes with being with people, different people, but I do it naturally.
While I do agree with the nonjudgmental stance, I also think it's kinda naive to ignore feelings of doubts and the niggles at the back of your head. You just can't treat people as blank slates that you take on face value, unless of course body language is the same as the words coming out.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I appreciate all that.


Did I speak to how to treat people at all, other than just loving them and not judging them? And the Golden Rule?


Let me say again. I do not think one should ignore bad behavior. But we must not construe that bad behavior means bad person. When you can do this, moral codes and differing worldviews, as barriers to interacting, are taken away.


But also, I might choose to let another hurt me, expose me, or exploit me. It's complex, but not, at the same time...

 

[Ginkgo]

Fi people are so picky that they couldn't imagine why anyone else would be enthusiastic about anything, including social roles!

They contain their value-based statements until they can express them through ideas. Jung describes them as masking their emotional states. Someone else being loose with their emotions and their considerations is inconceivable!

 

[Viridian]

"We Fi users can see eeeeeeverythiiiiing..."

 

[Mal12345]

yes, Fi CAN do this. it isn't hard to tell who is putting up a front/fulfilling a social role/being fake vs someone who is truly doing what they feel like. that's right, we CAN see through to the inner essence of a person. anyone who says we either does not have strong Fi or doesn't trust theirs.

I see. So Fi is more than just personal values. And that which we used to call intuition - being able to see what is only implicit - is really an Fi power.

But you forgot to mention being able to lift large objects with only the power of your Fi mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eudNfoMXRI

 

[Turtledove]

Yay, remember to loveyour BS meter today!

 

[prplchknz]

ugh! no function is psychic i;m going to round up every person who claims a function is practically psychic and feed them to a tank of rabid sharks

 

[KDude]

I don't doubt that Fi knows how it relates to things.. which in turn can be such a strong compulsion in them that it appears as fact. That doesn't mean it really is fact.

I know it's something I have nothing in common with too. I'm not always sure what's going on with people. I'd like to sometimes. I might ask or do something that brings it into light. Sometimes when I get a suspicion of bullshit, even that's tentative. I'd rather not jump full gusto into confidence, like Elfboy.

 

[Elfboy]

This may be true at times but my Fi finds it a bit distasteful. I am often highly irritated by people who believe they know who someone is or how they feel better than the person does them self. I find it nervy and assumptive unless one has long-term experience and closed a certain amount of psychological distance with the person in question. Maybe this is because as an ENFP i know that my perceptions are often very accurate but applying judgement to them can be horribly off. I also agree with Mmhmm here, Fi is subjective and relates back to self.. so I don't see this function alone being the ultimate BS detector.

My fi also tells me that if someone decides to be a fake or a fraud, it is still their business and I'm not going to swoop in pointing my finger
"fakey fake, I figured you out - Neener neener!" I find it sad and uncomfortable when other people or even myself, at times, has felt a need to do this - as though the real nectar is somehow insufficient. I typically want to dig deeper so I can understand why someone might be using a mask instead of demonizing them for it.

I'm not saying that
- I call them out on it (it is there business, unless I am somehow suffering from their fakeness, in which case the Ne/Te pimp hand comes out)
- that I'm right 100% of the time
- I'm telling them how to think (I hate when people do this, it's not the same thing)

but I am saying that
- that doesn't mean I don't know or can't evaluate their character accurately
- fakeness is usually easy to spot

 

[Nicodemus]

Cool thread, bro.

 

[Anew Leaf]

[This Thread]

One of these is not like the others.

 

[garbage]

A few xSTPs I know could beat the shit out of me and pretty much everyone else at poker because they knew a thing or two about bluffing and reading sincerity in other people. True story. Hard to believe, but it's true.

 

[EJCC]

Oh jeez -- I didn't realize some Fi users trust their Fi BS-detector in the same way that INFJs (and other Ni-users) often trust their Ni. I guess you learn something new every day?

Although I will say that when I hear Fi/Te-users on this forum talking about their BS detectors, it's often in the context of talking about how "fake" Fe is. Which, in my opinion, is an accusation that comes from a perspective of complete ignorance of what Fe actually means -- and/or it comes from bad experiences with unhealthy, passive-aggressive Fe-users. So: that right there is an example of incorrect Fi judgment, and possibly a reason to not take Fi as gospel.

But then again, I'm coming from a Te>Fi perspective, so...

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

A few xSTPs I know could beat the shit out of me and pretty much everyone else at poker because they knew a thing or two about bluffing and reading sincerity in other people. True story. Hard to believe, but it's true.

I agree that S's seem to be the most perceptive types.

 

[Elfboy]

Oh jeez -- I didn't realize some Fi users trust their Fi BS-detector in the same way that INFJs (and other Ni-users) often trust their Ni. I guess you learn something new every day?

Although I will say that when I hear Fi/Te-users on this forum talking about their BS detectors, it's often in the context of talking about how "fake" Fe is. Which, in my opinion, is an accusation that comes from a perspective of complete ignorance of what Fe actually means -- and/or it comes from bad experiences with unhealthy, passive-aggressive Fe-users. So: that right there is an example of incorrect Fi judgment, and possibly a reason to not take Fi as gospel.

But then again, I'm coming from a Te>Fi perspective, so...

Fe hate is not the point of this thread, I started a thread in the graveyard for Fe vs Fi wars a long time ago.

 

[Elfboy]

Fi people are so picky that they couldn't imagine why anyone else would be enthusiastic about anything, including social roles!
They contain their value-based statements until they can express them through ideas. Jung describes them as masking their emotional states. Someone else being loose with their emotions and their considerations is inconceivable!

yes

 

[EJCC]

Fe hate is not the point of this thread, I started a thread in the graveyard for Fe vs Fi wars a long time ago.

I know! I was using it as an example of Fi instincts sometimes being wrong. It was an example. And I wasn't talking about you specifically, anyways; I was thinking about some INTJs (and some other xNFPs) as well.

 

[prplchknz]

Oh jeez -- I didn't realize some Fi users trust their Fi BS-detector in the same way that INFJs (and other Ni-users) often trust their Ni. I guess you learn something new every day?

Although I will say that when I hear Fi/Te-users on this forum talking about their BS detectors, it's often in the context of talking about how "fake" Fe is. Which, in my opinion, is an accusation that comes from a perspective of complete ignorance of what Fe actually means -- and/or it comes from bad experiences with unhealthy, passive-aggressive Fe-users. So: that right there is an example of incorrect Fi judgment, and possibly a reason to not take Fi as gospel.

But then again, I'm coming from a Te>Fi perspective, so...

I don't trust my Fi when it comes to other people, I trust my Fi when it comes to myself