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  1. #51
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Exactly : D
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  2. #52
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I didn't read thru the thread and probably should have =) Have you considered going on a mild anti-anxiety? I would never typically just throw out a happy pill resolution haha but I've been reading alot about how stress and anxiety changes brain structure creating depression.. and it seems that sometimes if people go on a mild anti anxiety it actually gives the brain structure time to heal. THis combined with CBT seems to have really successful results.

    And ya.. I've had the same paranoia as you from time to time, along with hypochondriac tendencies from inferior si grips. No bueno.
    Heh, thanks... I may have used some hyperbole. I don't actually feel anxious, it's this kind of wheel that continually turns in my head... more like puzzle solving. I can tell myself to shut up, but I was just interested on how widespread the phenomena is.

  3. #53
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Yeah it's just the way we work. It's a bit maddening always reading things multiple ways.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #54
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Yes, but they're more likely to remain wrapped up in Fi value judgment rather than find external confirmation.
    Yeah. Imagine jumping to the wrong conclusion and then Ne serves to find evidence to back that. Every single glance/gesture/sentence is misinterpreted negatively and the hole gets dug deeper and deeper.
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  5. #55
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I've been spending the last couple years coming out of this very long depression that made me into a quasi-INTP.

    I've been getting a lot more social lately, and paranoia has become a prominent feature of my life, and I'm trying to keep it in check. My mind is nearly constantly trying to figure out if certain people like me, and if not, why. It also doesn't help that as I'm coming into my own, I've started to find even more of my ENFP recklessness.

    It's not really a crippling condition because I've learned that it really isn't the end of the world if somebody dislikes you. In fact, if everyone does like you, good chances are you are being a bland doormat. But, it is nearly maddning to me to not know why. Any ENFPs here relate, or anybody else?
    I relate completely.


    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    I always thought ENFPs were the most likable bunch even when they annoyed you. Who can stay mad at an ENFP?
    Most ENFPs come across as very likeable, at least the ones I know. I guess they could come across as unlikeable when their tertiary Te goes into overdrive. I know an ENFP who is normally very charming and entertaining but when his Te takes over, he will get really bossy and insistent that there is a one best way to do things. People get turned off by that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I think it's an Ne thing. It's about having information. I want to follow threads of cause and effect, but people are little black boxes where casuality is occluded. Also I really have an aversion to misinformation. It kills me to know that I might be misrepresented.
    Yeah.
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  6. #56
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Number 2: Being annoying isn't really as important as I thought.

    I was at a girl's night out with a group of women and there was this one chick. She was blabbling (blabbing and babbling) about the most random stuff. blah blah blah kind of extrovert. I thought, wow, this woman is so annoying.

    She ended up making a bunch of close friends in that group. I guess being annoying isn't all bad.
    I have experiences like that too. It makes me wonder if my perceptions are just a bit off. Maybe the annoying people are actually more socially acceptable than you/I think. I can imagine that the kind of person you describe fits in well with similar people.

    Also, I've noticed that not everyone has "friends" the way I would consider friendship. I've known people who have complained to me bitterly about how superficial a certain group of people was, but then (by choice) they spend most of their time with those people, and seem pretty entertained by them. Ok, maybe that's just two-facedness, but it seems like they're more into "entertainment" than "friendship". I also see something like that happening with people who go out and drink so much with their "friends" that someone ends up passing out, or whatever. If you have to be permanently smashed when you're around someone, or you like watching them pass out, it doesn't strike me as an interesting or rewarding or mutually upbuilding friendship.

    I feel anxious about whether I'm liked and even (groan) "popular", too. It can sometimes be a function of having a lot of friends who all know each other, and that sort of thing. Sometimes I think everyone's social life is hotter than my own. It's very unworthy and childish. Kind of like a hangover from high school.

    When I've found myself really doubting if someone likes me or not, usually it's either a) we're very early in our friendship and it still has a lot of development to undergo, or b) they might not actually think much of me, but if I look at it objectively I realise it doesn't matter that much because perhaps I don't really like them or enjoy their company, either. That's more of a "worrying about popularity" thing. With my good, long-established friends, I don't worry about them not liking me, or if I do, it's a sort of brief type 6 paranoia that strikes and is usually not well founded. (It may be worth noting that I live in England and have some English friends, and as they are emotionally reserved, some of those friendships have developed at an almost glacial pace and I've doubted along the way whether they like me that much. But things have convinced me to hang in there and it's generally been worth it, and we have shown that we value each other.)

    I know that this can be quite depressing, though. I really try to get a balance of alone time and friend time, and most of that friend time with people who definitely value me and are good for me. And try to let the other stuff go.

    Oh, and sense-checking/getting another perspective can definitely be good. Although odd, as well. I genuinely have sometimes felt that no one likes me, that I'm unlikeable and unattractive and everyone shuns me. (That tends to be low-level depression, paranoia and tiredness talking.) At the other extreme, some people genuinely seem to think that I'm a socialite who's constantly out with friends, that no one has ever disliked me, that I have a totally full life and never feel lonely or sad...etc. Wow! The reality definitely lies between those extremes.
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  7. #57
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    Most ENFPs come across as very likeable, at least the ones I know. I guess they could come across as unlikeable when their tertiary Te goes into overdrive. I know an ENFP who is normally very charming and entertaining but when his Te takes over, he will get really bossy and insistent that there is a one best way to do things. People get turned off by that.
    Perhaps only a few people as I felt ENFP already did a calculative analysis in their head before they let their Te superdrive take over.

    What I'm curious is how would you deal with such situation with them?

  8. #58
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I just saw that Qlip responded indicating it is an 'Ne thing'...and that is exactly what I was going to say. @MacGuffin saw this right off the bat...I think he writes about it in post #2. And it is something that Z Buck McFate and I were discussing in a different thread.

    If we can't nail-down 'internal reality' (example: how someone in our aquaintance feels about us) we become anxious...sometimes extremely so...because it prevents/blocks us from doing what we do best...exploring external possibilites. It is something that ends up being very distracting. If you are an Ni dom...you may recognize its opposite. If you are unable to nail-down 'external reality'...if there are too many phone calls...too many engagements...too many interruptions...this might make you feel distracted and overwhelmed because it blocks you from doing what you do naturally...exploring internal possiblities.
    I very much like this description^^. I think Ne feeds us all the data, useful or not and it is just too fragmentary and filled with possibilities to be able to pull out what is actually going on from an Fi perspective. I think ENFP Ne paranoia is actually very common and doesnt mean you are broken in anyway or have defective Fi or need drugs. To the OP, I think this is where Te becomes extremely handy as an initial objective tool to self monitor behavior. When you note becoming wound up and agitated, when you find yourself going "Well I bet he really was meaning [insert evil, nefarious behavior]" stop and just name it for what it is. "oh, haha, I am doing the crazy paranoia thing again". Then you dismiss it as irrelevant and recognize it is likely to be incredibly untrue and somewhat doomsday in nature and reassess how you feel in a few days about the sitiuation before acting.

    As for people just not liking you, it is really hard for me to handle as well. Te saves the day as it allows me to dismiss it or them, so I dont have to feel hurt, a trick learned long ago.. However, when open to hurt, it does hurt. To open your heart and be accepting of so many others in the world, endlessly forgiving and caring, to feel thier pain and hurt and to want to reach out, to hold them, to protect them-then have them be cruel or vindictive in turn is very painful.

    I think part of what our mind does-it uses Ne to capture fragmentary versions of the other person, molds, imprints upon our consciousness to capture a fuzzy snapshot of them. To be able to take this snapshot requires allowing our NeFi to mold around them, but in doing so, we are actually allowing them to shape our inner world some-allowing them inside of us. In doing so we can then compare the fuzzy snapshot to our past understanding of this person, other people, other times and assess what is different, and how to mold-all done almost subconsciously of course..

    When we do this, if they reject us or hurt us, we dont have any protective barriers in place, thus they actually kinda fuck up our internal core a great deal....as since we allowed them to become part of us, when they reject us, we actually reject ourselves??? This sounds weird, but feels like the right way to describe it.

    I dont agree with @MacGuffin that it is weak or poor Fi, as this classifies things as broken, and every young enfp cant be broken. Rather I would say it is young Fi being heavily influenced by Ne. As we age and gain self confidence, we become better at identifying the actual Possibilities with Ne, blocking the truley obnoxious with Te, and then having a stonrg sense of our own internal self worth, how we value and feel about ourselves with Fi grounded in Si, so that when we do choose to be vulnerable, to allow ourselves to mirror and reflect the other, to allow them to become part of us so we can understand them, if they choose to reject us, it isnt as destablizing to our core, although still a bit hurtful.


    I would argue the reason the INFPs dont quite get the magnitude of this intense paranoia as the enfps, is that they can alter thier perceptive mode to be more Si in nature, thus blocking a lot of the incoming Ne possibilities? (could be rephrased more eloquently) Basically, they can choose to judge themselves on previously gathered FiSi data on how they feel about themselves, and more easily ignore the input of those around them. I also notice they tend to be able to more easily dismiss negative judgements agsint them, via Fi judgment against the other person. shutting the door so to speak.

    Nardi did capture some sense of this when he described watching the brains of folks who lead with a judging function verses a perceiving function. There was a very marked split in how the two use frontal lobe. He also decsribed that people who tend to favor the Cheif Judge part of the frontal lobe,(dominant Ti, Te, Fi, or Fe) are more capable of ignoring information that they disagree with, thus allowing for less suceptibility to depression. Interesting book.

  9. #59
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I've been spending the last couple years coming out of this very long depression that made me into a quasi-INTP.

    I've been getting a lot more social lately, and paranoia has become a prominent feature of my life, and I'm trying to keep it in check. My mind is nearly constantly trying to figure out if certain people like me, and if not, why. It also doesn't help that as I'm coming into my own, I've started to find even more of my ENFP recklessness.

    It's not really a crippling condition because I've learned that it really isn't the end of the world if somebody dislikes you. In fact, if everyone does like you, good chances are you are being a bland doormat. But, it is nearly maddning to me to not know why. Any ENFPs here relate, or anybody else?
    I saw this post in the related post section of my post. Yes, I am going through it now.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  10. #60
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAmOrangeToday View Post
    I have savage episodes of self doubt. All I can think of sometimes are the ways in which a person has got the wrong idea, how I've come off a complete knob. Sometimes, I'll be thinking about a snatch of a conversation for weeks, even months. I now know for certain that very few people do this, which helps me to spot when I'm being silly. I really want to be a pleasant person to be around though, and a lot of the time I fail miserably and beat myself up over it for days.

    If I want to cut it out for good, I need to improve my inferior Te and knock some sense into myself, I think.
    Same issue here...
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

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