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[Fe] Suggestive Fe communication: How to recognize?

sculpting

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:smile: I LOVE Fe!! (No really, I do actually do adore you guys) :wubbie:

(I am mostly Fe stupid/blind, so I dont understand what exactly you guys need-thus my endless questioning and inquiery. If someone can explain (ie tell me explicitly) what I need to so, then I can pretty easily adapt to other people's needs-otherwise I just stand around slack-jawed and hugglily going "huh?, why did you did you just do that? Hugs?" (Also, just by typing this out it sort of allows me to understand the situation a bit better)

So the question for the day:

Can you give hints to recognize what Fe requests to do things look like? For example I have been working with an ENTP guy and he kept noting that we would need to work together to finish a fairly minor, mundane task. But he didnt say when, where, how or why and didnt note that he had a deadline to meet.

My brain took his "we'll need to work on this at some point" and translated it to "hey some day when you have a few months of free time and you arent doing anything important or even at all, maybe we might want to consider perhaps, thinking about mybe doing this things togeheter, but only if you want to..." and then placed the task at the very bottom of my list of things to do-because it didnt seem pressing or important. I suppose I look for either emotional intensity or very direct intenstity as a marker on communication to indicate importance from others...thus I seem to be miscategorizing the more subtle Fe guiding..?

Given I have very direct requests to "do A, B, C now by X deadline" from my FP and TJ collegues, it was very easy to miss that his less direct "suggestions" were actually a request to complete the task.

Finally he was like "I just finished doing it all". When I thanked him, he was kinda entp sarcastic and have me the alligator eyes and then I felt bad as I realized I had dropped the ball.

Can you guys give guidance on how I can recognize more subtle communication cues? How can I know what you want me to do, if you dont directly tell me what you want me to do?

Normally I think if it isnt stated directly (as in crazy ass direct), my brain just treats it as suggestive, thus dismissable or optional, so it is my own perceptive mode I'd like to modify if possible. Often, after thinking about where situations went wrong for a few days I go "OHHHH, they wanted me to DO something, ah, no wonder that didnt go well, I totally ignored them." But I'd like to be able to pick up on the hints in the moment if possible.
 

SilkRoad

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Hmm... If it was a work situation, and I needed to get someone to do something, or work with me on something, I would probably be quite direct. But excessively polite and thankful. :D "Er, Nancy, can I ask you to do x for me? Sorry about this, but I really need you to get it done for me by the end of the week. I really hope it's not a problem, but I definitely need it then. Sorry!" :D

It actually seems to work quite well, so there you go.

I think I have a harder time being direct in interpersonal relationships, with friends etc. I'm afraid that's where I'm more likely to want people to pick up hints or read my mind, though I think I am getting better at expressing my needs there, too.
 

uumlau

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It probably looks like this:

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy3rjQGc6lA"].[/YOUTUBE]

:newwink:
 

ExAstrisSpes

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Seems more like ENP flakiness than Fe-anything to me.

I agree with this assessment.

It probably looks like this:

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy3rjQGc6lA"].[/YOUTUBE]

:newwink:

Ha!

And even as a strong Fe user, I often miss subtle cues (I "get" them much later, after the knowledge is not much use to me), especially in the dating realm. "What, you mean you were trying to ask me out? Why are you being so vague then? And you expect women to be direct?!?!?"
 

Fidelia

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I think if a Fe user expresses one of their needs to you, either work wise or personally, you can take that as something much more directive or urgent than a Fi user doing so. I've realized that with (at least my brand of) Fe, it tends to put feelers out there and extrapolate from there what to expect from the other person. If you seem disinterested or dismissive, the message may be misinterpreted as being much stronger disinterest than you may actually feel.

For example, I'd be less likely to ask directly for a ride from someone if I didn't know them really well and didn't think I'd be inconveniencing them, even if I were really stuck. Instead I might say something about my circumstances. If they offer to help or seem open I'd pursue it, but if I find out that they have a busy day and it would be rather inconvenient, I wouldn't. I think the problem is that to me, it feels like I am being pretty obvious, but I understand now that to the other person, it may not be at all obvious and they wouldn't hear it as a non-awkward, easier to refuse for the other person way of requesting assistance.

Because Fe users (at their best) tend to be thinking of how their part affects the other people around them, they are more likely to feel resentful if you don't naturally do that in return, and chalk it up to thoughtlessness, flakiness or selfishness, which I realize isn't fair. Hence the alligator eyes thing. They don't want to have to tell you what to do, but feel that they are treating you like an adult by expressing the need but leaving it up to you to figure out when and how.

I shouldn't say that's true across the board though. I've found that ENFJs under stress tend to micro-manage or take other people's responsibilities onto their personal to do list (lots of nudges, then reminders and finally demands!). On the other hand, ENFJs also are very reluctant to explicity express their needs when it is something personal.

INFJs are more likely to tell you what they need, as long as they feel that they can predict what the reaction will be. I think this is part of the reason why they are not as explicit as they should be with a work team of people - they have to get familiar with each individual and learn to predict their reaction, plus they need time to figure out the group dynamic. Until that happens, they are less likely to wade in and be very directive. On the other hand, they still have a mental deadline and way they want things done, and it's unfortunate that the less well they know/trust someone, the less likely they are to verbalize it! I don't know about other flavours of Fe.

I find that I do pretty well with INTPs and ENTPs. I have less experience with the SJ and ST varieties of Fe.

Oh yeah - I also realize that I tend to soften up commands with something like "When you have time, could you look into..." rather than saying, "I need a reply by such and such a time". "We need to work on this at some point" means "Please keep this on your radar. We've got to get it taken care of sometime soon". After some time of thinking about these issues, I think I have gotten a lot better in a business sense at being more direct and giving harder deadlines. Some of that came from living in a culture where things were habitually very late, unpredictable and lax, so if you wanted good results, you had to take the bull by the horns, set early deadlines and keep checking in with people.

I recognize that I need to do the same in personal/social situations if it is something that matters a lot to me. I'm pretty good if it's someone I only know casually (relationship doesn't matter too much) or someone that I'm really close to (can let it all hang out a lot more without worries about damaging the relationship or annoying the other person), but not so much if it's someone I am friends with.

One of the nice things about Fe is that if you actually solicit feedback, it does convey that you are interested and are showing consideration (which gives you lots of points) and I've found most NFJ and NTP types usually will tell you what they really think then. They generally are reluctant to offer something negative if you don't seem open, but if you ask, it can be a great way of diffusing their frustration before it builds and also getting useful feedback.

I can't speak for other Fe-ers, but I really hate inconveniencing other people and usually would rather suck up the worst of it than upset people around me. At the same time, I am not a total go with the flow, see what happens person either. Those two are at odds and sometimes a lot of little incidents happen and resentment builds without me realizing that it is present, until it's a BIG DEAL. Then I feel embarrassed at getting upset or seeming unreasonable and try to stuff it back down. Unless the other person starts to notice there is an imbalance (which seems obvious to me, because I am hypersensitive to that if I'm the one being accommodated), then I find it hard to decide at what point I should express that we need to change things around. I find getting upset publicly very embarrassing, and yet sometimes if I don't pay attention to what's going on along the way, I can get surprised by the strength of my emotion when I don't expect it. As a result, I am learning to take on less and realize that I actually am creating more problems for other people by doing bending too much. I think the forum here has also helped me to understand how some conflict can be healthy and usually a bit of disagreement results in a better outcome ultimately. In practice, I am not that smooth at making it happen yet though, even if I understand the problem theoretically.
 

Such Irony

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So the question for the day:

Can you give hints to recognize what Fe requests to do things look like? For example I have been working with an ENTP guy and he kept noting that we would need to work together to finish a fairly minor, mundane task. But he didnt say when, where, how or why and didnt note that he had a deadline to meet.

My brain took his "we'll need to work on this at some point" and translated it to "hey some day when you have a few months of free time and you arent doing anything important or even at all, maybe we might want to consider perhaps, thinking about mybe doing this things togeheter, but only if you want to..." and then placed the task at the very bottom of my list of things to do-because it didnt seem pressing or important. I suppose I look for either emotional intensity or very direct intenstity as a marker on communication to indicate importance from others...thus I seem to be miscategorizing the more subtle Fe guiding..?

Given I have very direct requests to "do A, B, C now by X deadline" from my FP and TJ collegues, it was very easy to miss that his less direct "suggestions" were actually a request to complete the task.

Finally he was like "I just finished doing it all". When I thanked him, he was kinda entp sarcastic and have me the alligator eyes and then I felt bad as I realized I had dropped the ball.

Can you guys give guidance on how I can recognize more subtle communication cues? How can I know what you want me to do, if you dont directly tell me what you want me to do?

Normally I think if it isnt stated directly (as in crazy ass direct), my brain just treats it as suggestive, thus dismissable or optional, so it is my own perceptive mode I'd like to modify if possible. Often, after thinking about where situations went wrong for a few days I go "OHHHH, they wanted me to DO something, ah, no wonder that didnt go well, I totally ignored them." But I'd like to be able to pick up on the hints in the moment if possible.

Sorry I don't have any good suggestions. I am an Fe 'user' but Fe is in the inferior position for me so I have missed alot of the more subtle Fe hints that something should be done. As I've gotten older, I've missed less of these subtle hints just from experience and recognizing the Fe pattern of communication. I wonder if other IXTPs also have this problem.

I do better with a more direct approach but I also don't like too direct as that just comes off as overly bossy and demanding. If something needs to be get done urgently, just say so but do it in a polite way.
 

UniqueMixture

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I think ef types (which I see as having a lot of overlap in terms of communication style) tend to speak in terms of open questions, asking about feelings/experiences,and tend to listen well continuing the conversation based off of what the person just said. This is opposed to asking informational questions, yes/no questions, thinking about what you're going to say in response as the person is talking, and asking questions that provoke 1 word answers. Examples of the former:

What are you passionate about?
What makes you feel happy?
What's the most special thing you've done in the last two weeks/over a holiday?

The later:

Where were you born?
What do you do for work?
How old are you?

Usually exfx are the best at drawing others out into meaningful conversation so I tend to use that approach. (Except w intps lol)
 

SilkRoad

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Lots of good points here. I just wanted to add that especially if I feel I've been a bit directive or demanding (fairly unusual for me), I will express a lot of appreciation. Hopefully not in an OTT way. I feel like I get the balance more or less right, but then some people get embarassed by lots of thanks and appreciation, so you never know...

But to me this is all sort of "do to others what you would have them do to you," Golden Rule stuff. I feel hurt if I do a good job for someone or (especially) go out of my way for them and get little or no thanks. So I try to show appreciation in a way that I would like to get appreciation myself.
 
G

garbage

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Can you give hints to recognize what Fe requests to do things look like? For example I have been working with an ENTP guy and he kept noting that we would need to work together to finish a fairly minor, mundane task. But he didnt say when, where, how or why and didnt note that he had a deadline to meet.

My brain took his "we'll need to work on this at some point" and translated it to "hey some day when you have a few months of free time and you arent doing anything important or even at all, maybe we might want to consider perhaps, thinking about mybe doing this things togeheter, but only if you want to..." and then placed the task at the very bottom of my list of things to do-because it didnt seem pressing or important. I suppose I look for either emotional intensity or very direct intenstity as a marker on communication to indicate importance from others...thus I seem to be miscategorizing the more subtle Fe guiding..?

Oh, man. If that guy was expecting you to do something soon, he should have told you. You're not necessarily the one who dropped the ball; he didn't communicate his expectations properly. He screwed up. As [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION] hints, "we need to work on this at some point" pretty much means "keep this task in mind, as we should talk about this together soon; I'll take the lead on it."

You can search for hints from him all day long, yeah, and those hints can be useful and can help bridge the gap. But another way to bridge the gap is to ask questions such as, "Do you have a timeframe in mind?" or "OK, can you come get me when you need me?" That will at least let him know that you'll need something resembling some specifics if he wants you to help him. Let him learn some 'Te' lessons.

How do you know when to ask those questions? At any time where something seems unclear to you or when you have to do a decent amount of mental translation to 'make sense' out of something. "At some point" is pretty unclear, for example, and could use some elucidation.

If it's a continuing problem and if you can trust him, you can directly talk to him and ask him what his general expectations are.

Hopefully, he learned something from this experience as well and doesn't just regard you as unreliable (after all, you're obviously trying to understand where he's coming from). If he does--his loss.

:2ar15:
 

Z Buck McFate

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My brain took his "we'll need to work on this at some point" and translated it to "hey some day when you have a few months of free time and you arent doing anything important or even at all, maybe we might want to consider perhaps, thinking about mybe doing this things togeheter, but only if you want to..." and then placed the task at the very bottom of my list of things to do-because it didnt seem pressing or important. I suppose I look for either emotional intensity or very direct intenstity as a marker on communication to indicate importance from others...thus I seem to be miscategorizing the more subtle Fe guiding..?

Given I have very direct requests to "do A, B, C now by X deadline" from my FP and TJ collegues, it was very easy to miss that his less direct "suggestions" were actually a request to complete the task.

Finally he was like "I just finished doing it all". When I thanked him, he was kinda entp sarcastic and have me the alligator eyes and then I felt bad as I realized I had dropped the ball.

I’m kinda wondering if the lack of being direct is less some implied/latent Fe directive and more a lack of Te directive (?). If/when I say stuff like that aloud it’s because something that needs to get done will catch my eye, but “we need to work on this at some point” is the most directive comment that’ll come to mind for me. I’m not trying to imply anything, it’s just me looking at a pile of something that needs to get done, and not being able to figure out how to be clearer in expressing the opinion that we mustn’t forget about it (and when I say ‘we’, I mean if it’s a responsibility I share with another person). And asking me a more specific question about it will likely often get an equally vague response ( :blush: ), unless I have enough experience with a certain task that it’s become easier to break it down into distinct ‘steps’ which can be easily articulated. It’s maybe like the difference between a Te’er seeing it and instantly seeing ‘this is cerulean blue’ vs. a non Te’er seeing it as ‘I think this might be blue’.

But I usually do the thing you mentioned (underlined) myself when I hear such a statement. And if I don’t pick up on any urgency, then I won’t read much into it either. I *might* initially hear it more, due to the fact that I similarly express those kind of directives vaguely myself- but still, I assign weight to it according to other cues. So I agree with Bologna- if it wasn’t made clear, then I wouldn't feel bad about it. I personally might say it lightly myself in getting to know someone (see next chunk of response below)- then once saying it lightly doesn’t work, I’d probably say it with a little more urgency afterwards (e.g. “This is something else we need to get done, how do you want to work this into our workload?”). But I wouldn’t start giving someone the stink eye until I’ve made several attempts at pointing it out (maybe increasing emphases on “we need to get it done, how do you want to incorporate this into our workload”…..which feels icky to write, but- for lack of knowing how to do it better- that’s honestly what I’d do) and I start getting the impression the person is deliberately (albeit perhaps unconsciously) shirking because they know I’ll get it done (so they don’t give it the due weight of a ‘shared’ responsibility). Initially though, I’ll tend to see it as a communication fail on my own part and soak up the extra work while I’ll work on figuring out how to more effectively convey ‘we need to get this done’.

I do see how there *is* a bit of implied Fe directive mixed in:

They don't want to have to tell you what to do, but feel that they are treating you like an adult by expressing the need but leaving it up to you to figure out when and how.

Being too directive can come across as disrespectful to some people (the whole ‘treating them like they’re stupid’ micromanaging chestnut); there’s a strange dance involved (this may be more specific to INFJs) in getting to know each individual’s threshold/expectations and it requires interacting with them a few times before understanding what works best for *that* individual. I can remember it being somewhat easier, with people who worked ‘under’ me to break down tasks and ask for specific things when I noticed they weren’t responsive to ‘this needs to get done’- so I’ll admit there probably is a bit of implied Fe directive in the vaguer statements. But I still also think (at least for me) just not seeing how to frame things in a more specific Te way is a big part of the communication fail.

Can you guys give guidance on how I can recognize more subtle communication cues? How can I know what you want me to do, if you dont directly tell me what you want me to do?

Normally I think if it isnt stated directly (as in crazy ass direct), my brain just treats it as suggestive, thus dismissable or optional, so it is my own perceptive mode I'd like to modify if possible. Often, after thinking about where situations went wrong for a few days I go "OHHHH, they wanted me to DO something, ah, no wonder that didnt go well, I totally ignored them." But I'd like to be able to pick up on the hints in the moment if possible.


What I would do (and I know it’s been said before- FPs don’t like specific advice/examples on how to handle problems with people, they want to understand the problem….but I don’t know how else to frame this?) is directly tell the person you’re not trying to shirk responsibility (which I’m *guessing* is why you got the ‘alligator eyes’) but he needs to make the urgency in completing a task clear if he expects you to help with it, because the ‘hinting’ doesn’t fly with you. I worked alongside an ESFP nurse who was constantly yelling “you never answer my questions!” at me- and if she hadn’t done that, I’d never have realized that I really was giving rather cryptic answers that *seemed* like the more respectful answer to me…..but really it was actually only respectful for people who thought like me enough to understand that I was trying to leave them options, and just confusing for everyone else. She’d ask something wanting a clear “yes” or “no”, and I’d always give her the reasons for deciding “yes” or “no” on her own- it drove her effing crazy. :laugh: My point here is that he might be trying to be respectful in that vagueness (as mentioned, it leaves ‘respectful’ elbow room for Ti’ers) , and needs to be told that it’s lost on you? And/or, whenever he utters statements like “we’ll need to work on this at some point”, it might be a good idea of pointing out how *you* hear it and asking if that’s how he *means* it (which would ultimately teach him to say things in a way you’d hear them). <- This actually worked pretty well for me with my coworker nurse, repeatedly having it pointed out to me while I was doing it.
 

Istbkleta

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EDIT: Just realized I haven't understood the question :)


Good luck.
 
Last edited:

Esoteric Wench

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I’m kinda wondering if the lack of being direct is less some implied/latent Fe directive and more a lack of Te directive (?). ...I ...think (at least for me) just not seeing how to frame things in a more specific Te way is a big part of the communication fail.

+1. I also immediately thought of Orobas' Te as being the operative function in the example she gave in the OP.

What I would do (and I know it’s been said before- FPs don’t like specific advice/examples on how to handle problems with people, they want to understand the problem….but I don’t know how else to frame this?) is directly tell the person you’re not trying to shirk responsibility (which I’m *guessing* is why you got the ‘alligator eyes’) but he needs to make the urgency in completing a task clear if he expects you to help with it, because the ‘hinting’ doesn’t fly with you.

Awesome advice! (Though I hadn't heard anything about how FPs don't like specific examples on how to handle problems with people. My Te is very practical and specific examples are oftentimes the best way to communicate info so I love 'em.)
 

Red Herring

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[MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION]:

I function in a similar way. This is probably what it looks like to Te/Fi though:

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPqWCWLVEXk"]:D[/YOUTUBE]
 

SilkRoad

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I'm really really sorry, because I think this is an interesting and useful thread - but I just have to say that the title makes it sound (to me!) like it's about hitting on people using Fe. :laugh:
 

Esoteric Wench

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[MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION]:

I function in a similar way. This is probably what it looks like to Te/Fi though:

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPqWCWLVEXk"]:D[/YOUTUBE]

Fabulous. That's exactly what Fe sounds like to Fi/Te users. :)
 

sculpting

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Hi everyone-your ideas and feedback were really awesome-I thought Zbucks thoughts about the "lack of Te" to be especially helpful.

As a follow up, a few more questions:

1. What are some phrases I can use to politely decline additional work I dont have the bandwidth or time for? If I say, "I dont have time to do this right now", then it is pointed out that "well bob has already done this..."


2. I am having issues understanding how to deal with what I would call....I dunno...Fe change management....for lack of a better word. I have ran into this at two companies so far. A process will be built, typically Ti heavy. To use the process, certain deliverables or responsibilities are assigned at the start to be delivered at various phases through the process. However the process then will get tweaked and changed with no formal announcement-thus I show up ready to play my part and look as though I have fallen down on my responsibilities as I am not meeting the new-and-improved process. To me this changing of responsibilities without clarification is incredibly disrespectful and rude to do to another person and provokes feelings of offense as it makes me look as though I failed to carry through on my (value loaded) tasks.

Thank you guys so much for your advice!
 
G

Glycerine

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I am VERY direct. "We really need to get this done. Can you please do this? When are you free to meet up? Thanks a lot!". Fe is just overly polite directives in the context of getting shit done. I think you are reading way too much into this.

Here is a very simplistic and superficial way to look at it.

Basically be very direct but diplomatic with a lot of pleases and thank yous. Don't accuse people of mistakes directly unless it was a major screw up on their part. For example, if they give you the wrong time, instead of saying "you gave me the wrong time, jerk" say something like "oops, I think I wrote down the wrong time". I guess it's about making people comfortable and helping letting down defenses unless they really screw up, then people get chewed out.
 

KDude

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Since when is Fe just about polite directives? It's a whole slew of expressiveness. It just adjusted to objective conditions, but those objective conditions or groups don't necessarily require a diplomatic or moral imperative. The general feelings of the group involved could be merely festive - and it's the Fe type leading the charge or trying to coax others to participate. It could be Freddie Mercury like instead of.. Jesus like. It could be lifting mood, it could be affective placement of anger, etc.. In any case, it's more visible and extroverted than Fi. Those people who are pulling away and judging the objective conditions are often Fi types.
 
G

Glycerine

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Dude, I said in the context of getting stuff done and of course I was OVERSIMPLIFYING it. Fe is also about social pragmatism. Don't you think I would know about Fe as my leading function?
 
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