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  1. #11
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    My brain took his "we'll need to work on this at some point" and translated it to "hey some day when you have a few months of free time and you arent doing anything important or even at all, maybe we might want to consider perhaps, thinking about mybe doing this things togeheter, but only if you want to..." and then placed the task at the very bottom of my list of things to do-because it didnt seem pressing or important. I suppose I look for either emotional intensity or very direct intenstity as a marker on communication to indicate importance from others...thus I seem to be miscategorizing the more subtle Fe guiding..?

    Given I have very direct requests to "do A, B, C now by X deadline" from my FP and TJ collegues, it was very easy to miss that his less direct "suggestions" were actually a request to complete the task.

    Finally he was like "I just finished doing it all". When I thanked him, he was kinda entp sarcastic and have me the alligator eyes and then I felt bad as I realized I had dropped the ball.
    I’m kinda wondering if the lack of being direct is less some implied/latent Fe directive and more a lack of Te directive (?). If/when I say stuff like that aloud it’s because something that needs to get done will catch my eye, but “we need to work on this at some point” is the most directive comment that’ll come to mind for me. I’m not trying to imply anything, it’s just me looking at a pile of something that needs to get done, and not being able to figure out how to be clearer in expressing the opinion that we mustn’t forget about it (and when I say ‘we’, I mean if it’s a responsibility I share with another person). And asking me a more specific question about it will likely often get an equally vague response ( ), unless I have enough experience with a certain task that it’s become easier to break it down into distinct ‘steps’ which can be easily articulated. It’s maybe like the difference between a Te’er seeing it and instantly seeing ‘this is cerulean blue’ vs. a non Te’er seeing it as ‘I think this might be blue’.

    But I usually do the thing you mentioned (underlined) myself when I hear such a statement. And if I don’t pick up on any urgency, then I won’t read much into it either. I *might* initially hear it more, due to the fact that I similarly express those kind of directives vaguely myself- but still, I assign weight to it according to other cues. So I agree with Bologna- if it wasn’t made clear, then I wouldn't feel bad about it. I personally might say it lightly myself in getting to know someone (see next chunk of response below)- then once saying it lightly doesn’t work, I’d probably say it with a little more urgency afterwards (e.g. “This is something else we need to get done, how do you want to work this into our workload?”). But I wouldn’t start giving someone the stink eye until I’ve made several attempts at pointing it out (maybe increasing emphases on “we need to get it done, how do you want to incorporate this into our workload”…..which feels icky to write, but- for lack of knowing how to do it better- that’s honestly what I’d do) and I start getting the impression the person is deliberately (albeit perhaps unconsciously) shirking because they know I’ll get it done (so they don’t give it the due weight of a ‘shared’ responsibility). Initially though, I’ll tend to see it as a communication fail on my own part and soak up the extra work while I’ll work on figuring out how to more effectively convey ‘we need to get this done’.

    I do see how there *is* a bit of implied Fe directive mixed in:

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    They don't want to have to tell you what to do, but feel that they are treating you like an adult by expressing the need but leaving it up to you to figure out when and how.
    Being too directive can come across as disrespectful to some people (the whole ‘treating them like they’re stupid’ micromanaging chestnut); there’s a strange dance involved (this may be more specific to INFJs) in getting to know each individual’s threshold/expectations and it requires interacting with them a few times before understanding what works best for *that* individual. I can remember it being somewhat easier, with people who worked ‘under’ me to break down tasks and ask for specific things when I noticed they weren’t responsive to ‘this needs to get done’- so I’ll admit there probably is a bit of implied Fe directive in the vaguer statements. But I still also think (at least for me) just not seeing how to frame things in a more specific Te way is a big part of the communication fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Can you guys give guidance on how I can recognize more subtle communication cues? How can I know what you want me to do, if you dont directly tell me what you want me to do?

    Normally I think if it isnt stated directly (as in crazy ass direct), my brain just treats it as suggestive, thus dismissable or optional, so it is my own perceptive mode I'd like to modify if possible. Often, after thinking about where situations went wrong for a few days I go "OHHHH, they wanted me to DO something, ah, no wonder that didnt go well, I totally ignored them." But I'd like to be able to pick up on the hints in the moment if possible.

    What I would do (and I know it’s been said before- FPs don’t like specific advice/examples on how to handle problems with people, they want to understand the problem….but I don’t know how else to frame this?) is directly tell the person you’re not trying to shirk responsibility (which I’m *guessing* is why you got the ‘alligator eyes’) but he needs to make the urgency in completing a task clear if he expects you to help with it, because the ‘hinting’ doesn’t fly with you. I worked alongside an ESFP nurse who was constantly yelling “you never answer my questions!” at me- and if she hadn’t done that, I’d never have realized that I really was giving rather cryptic answers that *seemed* like the more respectful answer to me…..but really it was actually only respectful for people who thought like me enough to understand that I was trying to leave them options, and just confusing for everyone else. She’d ask something wanting a clear “yes” or “no”, and I’d always give her the reasons for deciding “yes” or “no” on her own- it drove her effing crazy. My point here is that he might be trying to be respectful in that vagueness (as mentioned, it leaves ‘respectful’ elbow room for Ti’ers) , and needs to be told that it’s lost on you? And/or, whenever he utters statements like “we’ll need to work on this at some point”, it might be a good idea of pointing out how *you* hear it and asking if that’s how he *means* it (which would ultimately teach him to say things in a way you’d hear them). <- This actually worked pretty well for me with my coworker nurse, repeatedly having it pointed out to me while I was doing it.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  2. #12
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    EDIT: Just realized I haven't understood the question


    Good luck.
    Last edited by Istbkleta; 04-13-2012 at 02:17 AM. Reason: irrelevant answer

  3. #13
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I’m kinda wondering if the lack of being direct is less some implied/latent Fe directive and more a lack of Te directive (?). ...I ...think (at least for me) just not seeing how to frame things in a more specific Te way is a big part of the communication fail.
    +1. I also immediately thought of Orobas' Te as being the operative function in the example she gave in the OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    What I would do (and I know it’s been said before- FPs don’t like specific advice/examples on how to handle problems with people, they want to understand the problem….but I don’t know how else to frame this?) is directly tell the person you’re not trying to shirk responsibility (which I’m *guessing* is why you got the ‘alligator eyes’) but he needs to make the urgency in completing a task clear if he expects you to help with it, because the ‘hinting’ doesn’t fly with you.
    Awesome advice! (Though I hadn't heard anything about how FPs don't like specific examples on how to handle problems with people. My Te is very practical and specific examples are oftentimes the best way to communicate info so I love 'em.)
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  4. #14
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    @fidelia:

    I function in a similar way. This is probably what it looks like to Te/Fi though:

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPqWCWLVEXk"][/YOUTUBE]
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  5. #15
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I'm really really sorry, because I think this is an interesting and useful thread - but I just have to say that the title makes it sound (to me!) like it's about hitting on people using Fe.
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  6. #16
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    @fidelia:

    I function in a similar way. This is probably what it looks like to Te/Fi though:

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPqWCWLVEXk"][/YOUTUBE]
    Fabulous. That's exactly what Fe sounds like to Fi/Te users.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  7. #17
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Hi everyone-your ideas and feedback were really awesome-I thought Zbucks thoughts about the "lack of Te" to be especially helpful.

    As a follow up, a few more questions:

    1. What are some phrases I can use to politely decline additional work I dont have the bandwidth or time for? If I say, "I dont have time to do this right now", then it is pointed out that "well bob has already done this..."


    2. I am having issues understanding how to deal with what I would call....I dunno...Fe change management....for lack of a better word. I have ran into this at two companies so far. A process will be built, typically Ti heavy. To use the process, certain deliverables or responsibilities are assigned at the start to be delivered at various phases through the process. However the process then will get tweaked and changed with no formal announcement-thus I show up ready to play my part and look as though I have fallen down on my responsibilities as I am not meeting the new-and-improved process. To me this changing of responsibilities without clarification is incredibly disrespectful and rude to do to another person and provokes feelings of offense as it makes me look as though I failed to carry through on my (value loaded) tasks.

    Thank you guys so much for your advice!

  8. #18
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    I am VERY direct. "We really need to get this done. Can you please do this? When are you free to meet up? Thanks a lot!". Fe is just overly polite directives in the context of getting shit done. I think you are reading way too much into this.

    Here is a very simplistic and superficial way to look at it.

    Basically be very direct but diplomatic with a lot of pleases and thank yous. Don't accuse people of mistakes directly unless it was a major screw up on their part. For example, if they give you the wrong time, instead of saying "you gave me the wrong time, jerk" say something like "oops, I think I wrote down the wrong time". I guess it's about making people comfortable and helping letting down defenses unless they really screw up, then people get chewed out.

  9. #19
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Since when is Fe just about polite directives? It's a whole slew of expressiveness. It just adjusted to objective conditions, but those objective conditions or groups don't necessarily require a diplomatic or moral imperative. The general feelings of the group involved could be merely festive - and it's the Fe type leading the charge or trying to coax others to participate. It could be Freddie Mercury like instead of.. Jesus like. It could be lifting mood, it could be affective placement of anger, etc.. In any case, it's more visible and extroverted than Fi. Those people who are pulling away and judging the objective conditions are often Fi types.

  10. #20
    Glycerine
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    Dude, I said in the context of getting stuff done and of course I was OVERSIMPLIFYING it. Fe is also about social pragmatism. Don't you think I would know about Fe as my leading function?

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