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Thread: NF "telepathy"

  1. #11
    Member WheresRocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Factual exchanges? Ughhh, must we?

    Like I said, those details mean a whole lot less to me. I don't dismiss them entirely and I try to stay open to other interpretations. I might have a intiutive grasp of someone but I still go through the motions pretending I don't; I try to remain willing for my instincts to be proven wrong.

    Could you give a more specific example of when you think factual exchanges were overlooked and it caused problems? I'm struggling to think of too many times when such things interferred with my relationships with others.
    I, too, am struggling to think of times when a dearth of factual exchanges interfered with my relationships. Actually, what information about another person is there that I should only be able to gather through factual exchanges and not through intuition?

    In my relationship with my ENFJ spouse, our intuitive knowledge of each other took us right up to the point at which we moved in together (year 5). Since then we have had to be more intentional about building our relationship, of course, but the facts we exchange are more in the service of the relationship itself than in the interest of getting to know each other better. We know each other well through intuition already, and continue to learn about each other more through observing and processing than through deliberate discussion of Who We Are.

    Two thoughts on that: it's easier for us to intuit about each other than to give each other lists of important info (this is only a slight exaggeration of what I envision when I read "factual exchange"), in part because it's a dominant function to intuit, but also in part because we often don't know all our own ways and means for certain. I often have a hard time knowing the ins and outs of my own feelings and motives, but can see them accurately as they're reflected back to me by my intuitive partner.

    The other thing is, as @Reverie said, the holistic picture of who this person is and where they're going is a lot more important to me than the nitty-gritty of domestic life, which is the area in which most of my relationship's factual exchanges have occurred. Of course it's good to know how best to accommodate each other and not drive each other nuts, but that's about as far as the facts go for me.

    I only have a romantic perspective to share, though, as I can't think of any close friends who are NFs. I'd be interested to hear someone else's thoughts from a friendship perspective; maybe it's different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    It's funny how you all enjoy this. Sounds uncomfortable. I get annoyed if someone tries to say they know me (more annoyed if it's accompanied with analysis.. probably N and T, rather than F). At the same time, it might be cool to be "found out" in the right away. I just haven't experienced it.

    I think SPs might create some "bond" if they enjoy something in the same way. It's not exactly "trading facts", but more about experiences or combined action. But it can easily go away.
    I feel close to people for reasons like music and film, like "oh wow so cool we share aesthetic interests" and love it when someone can feed my interests with similar but new art forms I'm into. It's a big thing for me, makes me really happy. I guess that's what you mean about enjoying something in the same way?

    I also had this moment with an ISTP last night where he was like "you know if I didn't really like you I wouldn't be here right now, I would just straight up...like" and I'm like "yeah there's no way, I'd put my hand in your face" and he was like "exactly" and we started laughing. Like we were both expressing our disdain for people who pretend to be nice or like someone, and we were congratulating ourselves for being more direct.

    I tend to bond with people over things like that. I also like when I have a similar sense of humor to someone else, or if I can fight with a person and we get closer or are still friends and totally forgive each other. I love it when I can fight with someone, because it means I can be myself.

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    The supernatural of today will be the science of tomorrow!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    The supernatural of today will be the science of tomorrow!
    I don't think real telepathy or the supernatural has anything to do with Jungian intuition. That was my original reason for coming into this thread, to talk about the ESFJs I've known who sense and pick up things and who I've had "telepathy" with, but then I realized the OP meant something else and refrained. Until I saw your comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Not real telepathy.... But no doubt, fellow NFs, you have experienced that NF-on-NF special connection. You get to know each other very quickly, but via vibes, and this creates a quick forming intimacy.


    Basically, you know all this stuff about them that they have not told you, but not in factual form. You just *know* the essence of who they are, as if their life, their traits, just who they ARE, have been summed up in a piece of art that hits you viscerally & gives you an understanding of something complex in a simple, well, intuitive way. And when you realize someone has experienced the same thing about you in return, then it can be the most refreshing thing ever, and your guard goes down.

    So what's the problem?

    There can be such a focus on sharing feelings, emotions, hopes, dreams, visions for the future, exploring who you want to become, etc, & knowing via "vibes" that very little factual info is exchanged. You have this intimacy founded on nothing concrete. This is a problem as those little factual details, which can seem so insignificant & dull to an NF, start to emerge. The big picture is tarnished a bit when these, while making sense in relation to it, make it a tad less, well, ideal. It's not that you didn't understand their essence correctly, it's that you underestimated the importance of those factual details, glossing them over in favor of the potential the person represents.
    I experience this the most with NFJs. It's like we meet, and click, and bond and it's magic... until that one fateful day when Fi/Fe and Ni/Ne clash and suddenly you look at each other like you have never met each other before. There is something to be said about bonding with people with whom one has little in common with because any bond formed is based on creative workarounds to differences of thinking and being.

    What is your experience with this?
    Or have you experienced this?
    The obvious solution is to push for more factual exchanges, so how do you do this & not fall into that magical telepathic-like mode?
    I have experienced this problem most often with other NFs but also with some INTPs. It's easy to get caught up in the sameness of thinking and then stumble upon a difference and have it upset the entire apple cart.

    The "solution" I have found for relationships, is that I no longer seek out men who are super similar to me (NFs, NTPs) and instead I would prefer someone who brings something else to the table (STPs, NTJs).

    With friends, I try to have more patience than I normally have and realize this could be a temporary glitch (ie, we are both feeling crabby and feeding off of each others bad energy) or it seems like a giant deal but isn't.

    Hmm, I may have more thoughts later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WheresRocket View Post
    I only have a romantic perspective to share, though, as I can't think of any close friends who are NFs. I'd be interested to hear someone else's thoughts from a friendship perspective; maybe it's different.
    I've got some NF BFFS It's actually the same. We just talk about "the good stuff" and sometimes forget the "Oh I changed my job/ moved/ am seeing someone." Then a couple of years later either one notices. I think I forgot to tell my ENFJ friend I got married for a while. Not that it bothered them... Some of my more S friends would definitely raise an eyebrow at that. That's why I'm a wee "eccentric"...lucky for me it's ok in the creative professions to be a little erhmmm....

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I experience this the most with NFJs. It's like we meet, and click, and bond and it's magic... until that one fateful day when Fi/Fe and Ni/Ne clash and suddenly you look at each other like you have never met each other before. There is something to be said about bonding with people with whom one has little in common with because any bond formed is based on creative workarounds to differences of thinking and being.
    Yes, I more or less agree with this. There's been some discussion here or there on this forum about how (for instance) INFJs and INFPs seem to run into problems because in a lot of ways they do connect and bond in a pretty significant way... So when the major differences do start to show up (Fi/Fe conflict, etc) it can feel like major disillusionment because you sort of expect more from the relationship. You've maybe come to feel that the other will always give you that extra understanding and see things in a similar way.

    I tend to get wary when I see subjects like "NF telepathy" (sorry OP, not having a go at you or anything!). It's just that there is a lot of silliness (IMHO) floating around about how INFJs in particularly are "psychic" and "never wrong", etc. Which I just think is...silly. I know that's probably not the main thrust of this thread, though. I do understand about feeling a particular "click" or "flow" with certain people and I think I have probably tended to feel it more so with other NFs - but not exclusively. I don't get to see my INFJ friend who also lives abroad very often any more, but when we email, or when we sometimes get to spend enough time together, we definitely experience that. Lots of those "um...did you just read my mind? " moments. I do think it can happen with non-NFs though.

    I just question...everything a lot, which is partly the 6 enneagram, I think. I question my "click" (or lack of click) with people, I question the instincts and conclusions that I come to, I question my gut feelings. I've actually realised that my very first gut feelings - like the VERY very first, almost the first few seconds, or at least the first conversation or the first couple of conversations - about someone tend to be right. Sometimes I have had to return (even sadly) to those gut feelings way down the line in my relationship with someone. So I'm trying to listen to my gut feelings and instincts more and trust them more. But it's more natural for me to question everything. Which can, depending on the situation, a) save me some trouble; b) cause more trouble; c) not particularly cause or save me trouble, but just stop me from living in the moment...

    Personally, I'd be wary of running a relationship mainly on instinct/big picture. I'd want some of that, for sure, or a lot of that. But I would also want facts. I think both are important.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    On the rare occasion that you get to have that tacit communication and understanding, do real facts matter so much when you deal with "factoids" on the norm and "telepathy" only on rare occasions? Enjoy it for what it is, and don't make it be something that it isn't.
    I was of this mindset also... until a rude awakening happened & in retrospect I saw that the facts mattered quite a bit. They certainly are not more important, but they do complete the picture. Just as ONLY sharing factual info is not a way to know someone deeply, not sharing any facts can leave huge gaps of understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Factual exchanges? Ughhh, must we?

    Like I said, those details mean a whole lot less to me. I don't dismiss them entirely and I try to stay open to other interpretations. I might have a intiutive grasp of someone but I still go through the motions pretending I don't; I try to remain willing for my instincts to be proven wrong.

    Could you give a more specific example of when you think factual exchanges were overlooked and it caused problems? I'm struggling to think of too many times when such things interferred with my relationships with others.
    They mean little to me also, and to most NFs, which is why the tendency to never go there with each other is high, but that tendency can lead to problems.

    I struggle to think of an example because, case in point, I just don't think in such literal terms.

    I suppose an example is not knowing exactly why an NF I was close to was out of work for so long. I knew the emotional reason. I knew there was fear, but there was more to it than that. So when I eventually learned the factual circumstances (tidbits from other people & the NF's own offhand comments came together), then I had a lot less sympathy. Many of this person's qualities & habits & opinions were put into a new light, so that little things I had dismissed in favor of the "big picture" made a lot more sense & carried a lot more weight than they had prior. I saw more than fear....I also saw a sense of entitlement, a stubbornness, & a self-indulgence that extended from this fear, as a way to avoid confronting it. I don't think these qualities were the essence of this person, but a sort of coping. This is why I bypassed it for so long...I tend to zero in on the core & see the person under the surface debris. But these coping habits are majorly problematic if the person refuses to admit them or change them.

    Just as facts need that big picture context, the big picture needs some facts to connect certain dots so it's a clearer, more accurate image.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    It's funny how you all enjoy this. Sounds uncomfortable. I get annoyed if someone tries to say they know me (more annoyed if it's accompanied with analysis.. probably N and T, rather than F). At the same time, it might be cool to be "found out" in the right away. I just haven't experienced it.
    They don't tell you... you simply sense that they know you, & you know that they sense you know them also. Nothing is explicitly stated, which is the problem, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post

    I experience this the most with NFJs. It's like we meet, and click, and bond and it's magic... until that one fateful day when Fi/Fe and Ni/Ne clash and suddenly you look at each other like you have never met each other before. There is something to be said about bonding with people with whom one has little in common with because any bond formed is based on creative workarounds to differences of thinking and being.
    Yes, this is the extreme result of this..... you realize you don't really know that person.

    More often, I find my intuitions about the person were right in many ways, even in every way, just that those little details added another dimension, one too significant to dismiss as minor facts.

    I have experienced this problem most often with other NFs but also with some INTPs. It's easy to get caught up in the sameness of thinking and then stumble upon a difference and have it upset the entire apple cart.
    Exactly...these facts are not trivial. If that were the case, then it would be a non-issue. I see not every NF has had this rude awakening though. I'd just say - be careful. Remember that intuition, like sensing, is only focusing on a part of reality, not the whole of it. It's easy to think this is not so when you've not had a bad experience in this vein....
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  9. #19
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    It's funny how you all enjoy this. Sounds uncomfortable. I get annoyed if someone tries to say they know me (more annoyed if it's accompanied with analysis.. probably N and T, rather than F). At the same time, it might be cool to be "found out" in the right away. I just haven't experienced it.
    Oh, it can be terrible if they are presumptive or they get it wrong and then refuse to accept that they have. I don't usually literally voice my impressions (ie. "you are this sort of person") but use that information to shape the relationship

    And you never know, you might have been "found out" by someone and they just didn't tell you.

    I think SPs might create some "bond" if they enjoy something in the same way. It's not exactly "trading facts", but more about experiences or combined action. But it can easily go away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I feel close to people for reasons like music and film, like "oh wow so cool we share aesthetic interests" and love it when someone can feed my interests with similar but new art forms I'm into. It's a big thing for me, makes me really happy. I guess that's what you mean about enjoying something in the same way?
    Yeah, this is a nice observation. SPs do seem to value shared experience more, although I do connect beyond this with a ISFP friend of mine (but like I said, this happened over time). For me the best thing is feeling in tune with the 'soul' of another person. Having common interests, taste, values, politics etc helps a lot but it's not enough for me to form a strong bond; although people I feel very in tune with inevitably tend to have a lot in common with me. Perhaps it's the same vice versa with SPs and we are just approaching it from different angles.

    Quote Originally Posted by WheresRocket View Post
    In my relationship with my ENFJ spouse, our intuitive knowledge of each other took us right up to the point at which we moved in together (year 5). Since then we have had to be more intentional about building our relationship, of course, but the facts we exchange are more in the service of the relationship itself than in the interest of getting to know each other better. We know each other well through intuition already, and continue to learn about each other more through observing and processing than through deliberate discussion of Who We Are.
    OK, yeah this is starting to make sense now - I can see this as being an example. Sometimes you just have to literally state what you're feeling, what you need from your partner, or what is upsetting you, or else you're left at cross purposes. I do see many relationships where these things are left unsaid and you can see the strain it puts on things; and people get increasingly frustrated because their partner isn't intuitively getting it. I can see how directness is the only way to overcome such problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Yes, I more or less agree with this. There's been some discussion here or there on this forum about how (for instance) INFJs and INFPs seem to run into problems because in a lot of ways they do connect and bond in a pretty significant way... So when the major differences do start to show up (Fi/Fe conflict, etc) it can feel like major disillusionment because you sort of expect more from the relationship. You've maybe come to feel that the other will always give you that extra understanding and see things in a similar way.
    Yes, nice point. Too many similarities can make any differences more shocking and overwhelming.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I suppose an example is not knowing exactly why an NF I was close to was out of work for so long. I knew the emotional reason. I knew there was fear, but there was more to it than that. So when I eventually learned the factual circumstances (tidbits from other people & the NF's own offhand comments came together), then I had a lot less sympathy. Many of this person's qualities & habits & opinions were put into a new light, so that little things I had dismissed in favor of the "big picture" made a lot more sense & carried a lot more weight than they had prior. I saw more than fear....I also saw a sense of entitlement, a stubbornness, & a self-indulgence that extended from this fear, as a way to avoid confronting it. I don't think these qualities were the essence of this person, but a sort of coping. This is why I bypassed it for so long...I tend to zero in on the core & see the person under the surface debris. But these coping habits are majorly problematic if the person refuses to admit them or change them.

    Just as facts need that big picture context, the big picture needs some facts to connect certain dots so it's a clearer, more accurate image.
    I see. So really it's still about understanding someone's essence, it's just that more specific information may be needed to feed that and not just airy fairy impressions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I don't think real telepathy or the supernatural has anything to do with Jungian intuition. That was my original reason for coming into this thread, to talk about the ESFJs I've known who sense and pick up things and who I've had "telepathy" with, but then I realized the OP meant something else and refrained. Until I saw your comment.
    It seems like more-enlightened ESFJs often possess pretty solid non-MBTI intuition. I assume it's got a good deal to do with Fe-people-insight.

    Incidentally probably the most non-MBTI intuitive person I know is an ISFJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I experience this the most with NFJs. It's like we meet, and click, and bond and it's magic... until that one fateful day when Fi/Fe and Ni/Ne clash and suddenly you look at each other like you have never met each other before. There is something to be said about bonding with people with whom one has little in common with because any bond formed is based on creative workarounds to differences of thinking and being.
    YESSS

    I have this one coworker I love, who is like 20 years older than me, different ethnicity, different gender, different background, just totally different everything, and we clicked immediately. I'm 110% sure he's ENFJ, and we've had that exact NF-NF understanding right from the get-go. It's just so easy to get along and to understand what each other is getting at. But then this one day I come into the workspace and he's talking with another coworker about Hell and Christian demonology and I'm just totally blown away because that's so far away from anything I believe. And it suddenly struck me that his view of reality - a reality that up until that point seemed perfectly, silently shared - is completely different than my own. We still work together like magic, but it still blows me away that this world that we seem to understand on exactly the same plane is actually seen through such different viewpoints on such a baseline level.

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