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[INFJ] INFJ Hate Thread

wedekit

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
694
MBTI Type
INFJ
how do you envision it, though? you have to start off with something to get a vision. Ne would make a bunch of random guesses that would have to be analyzed by a judging function. Ni would connect the data with a long term framework, which would explain why the data is much more likely to connect properly when analyzed by a judging function. (and it also explains why Ni is so much slower than Ne).



yes. but you can't just jump to an answer without a framework guiding you. it's not like Ni just magically knows the answer.

Please note that I didn't make any kind of claim about Ni not possessing any kind of framework formed by data. Actually, my whole post had nothing to do with the little debate you and Kiddo were having, I just wished to differentiate between Ni and Ne.
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
well people just have to realize that they're more likely to be happy when they are nice to others. if you cut people off by being mean, you suffer. sacrificing yourself for others in a healthy way is a long term investment that most likely benefits you.

it's still self-promotion, though.

Umm. Does not compute. That as self-promotion? Ick. 'Long term investment that most likely benefits you?' ick.

This doesn't sit right with me. Relationships like that... as investments... it just sounds too cold...
 

Kiddo

Furry Critter with Claws
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
2,790
MBTI Type
OMNi
Umm. Does not compute. That as self-promotion? Ick. 'Long term investment that most likely benefits you?' ick.

This doesn't sit right with me. Relationships like that... as investments... it just sounds too cold...

An INTJ calling an INFJ cold? :horor:
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
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Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
An INTJ calling an INFJ cold? :horor:

I knew you were going to respond like that.

A business relationship is an investment. A personal relationship is so much more than that. There's something more intangible to it.

You're allowed to speak like that until it comes to application. Or can INFJs always do that?

That's creepy.
 

Kiddo

Furry Critter with Claws
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
2,790
MBTI Type
OMNi
I knew you were going to respond like that.

A business relationship is an investment. A personal relationship is so much more than that. There's something more intangible to it.

You're allowed to speak like that until it comes to application. Or can INFJs always do that?

That's creepy.

I'm not exactly sure I'm in agreement with dissonance on that one. I see a relationship as a mutually beneficial experience, since both parties can share their emotional, intellectual, and sometimes physical capacities. In a relationship you also have someone to help you shoulder the burdens and vice versa.
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
I'm not exactly sure I'm in agreement with dissonance on that one. I see a relationship as a mutually beneficial experience, since both parties can share their emotional, intellectual, and sometimes physical capacities. In a relationship you also have someone to help you shoulder the burdens and vice versa.

Again, does not compute.

'Mutually beneficial' is as much as I got. And I can agree with that.
 

wedekit

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Nov 10, 2007
Messages
694
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INFJ
Well, I have a close INTJ friend (female) that I get along great with. We make up for each other's weaknesses as coworkers in the residence hall. She is great with putting together events and committees, but tends to fall apart when people start having problems for whatever reason. I can easily step in and be the diplomat to fix these kinds of problems. I would like to think that we have both come to value the qualities the other possesses that used to cause a lot of friction and dislike between us.
 

redacted

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
4,223
A business relationship is an investment. A personal relationship is so much more than that. There's something more intangible to it.

a personal relationship is totally an investment as well. emotions, connection-feeling, all of those things can be thought of as pros and cons to be weighed strategically in deciding how much energy to invest in the future of the relationship.

i'm not making any claim about the nature of emotional connections, i'm just saying they can be broken down into how they positively and negatively affect an individual. and from that perspective, everyone should make decisions that maximize their own positive feelings.
 

redacted

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Messages
4,223
Please note that I didn't make any kind of claim about Ni not possessing any kind of framework formed by data. Actually, my whole post had nothing to do with the little debate you and Kiddo were having, I just wished to differentiate between Ni and Ne.

sorry :)
 

Carebear

will make your day
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
1,449
MBTI Type
INFP
I can see "self-preservation and self-promotion" as being the original pursuit of life but it can't be final. Using it as the final pursuit of life is very immature. It looks like an extremely easy trap to fall into, though, hence Ayn Rand's popularity, I guess.

Well said!

Ayn Rand is most popular amount young white males, ages 16-25. That is the time in life where most people have established their identity and have entered the intimacy vs. isolation crisis described by Erickson. It's a period in people's lives where they begin to form relationships and they have to learn that their identities will not disappear by becoming interdependent on others. Failure to do so results in isolation.

Ah, so that's what's eating Uberfurer!

Umm. Does not compute. That as self-promotion? Ick. 'Long term investment that most likely benefits you?' ick.

This doesn't sit right with me. Relationships like that... as investments... it just sounds too cold...

A business relationship is an investment. A personal relationship is so much more than that. There's something more intangible to it.

There might be more to it on an emotional level, but I've found this is how most people and societies function. When we receive, we give. When we give we expect to receive. When Jesus talks about doing onto others etc. it can be read as him confirming this is how people work, and ask people to invest in order to make them and their societies "richer". In my eyes we all operate in a large strategy game where we calculate cost/risk/reward in our transaction offers.

Example of transactions:
a) Talking with an old lady for a while for money.
b) Talking with an old lady for a while for a good feeling (feeling kind, feeling you're doing your duty etc.)
c) Talking with an old lady for a while for the potential of gaining new knowledge.

Often people do it for more than one reason, but it's still subject to a cost/risk/reward consideration. If you did it mainly for reason a) and someone stopped giving you money for it, you'd probably stop the transactions unless you'd found it was still worth it for reason b) or c). Or b) and you no longer felt kind or felt it was your duty, it'd be the same. Or you did it for c) and realized the chances of actually learning any useful from the old cow really weren't worth the investment and you didn't really didn't feel kind enough or feel obliged enough to keep doing it.

Since people value things differently, the investments of two people can give them both a lot more in return than they gave (or the possibility of gaining more in the future). You'll often hear people in a relationship say "he gave me X, while I gave him Y" where X and Y can be for instance stability and excitement. It costs a stable person little to give stability or an exciting one little to give excitement, and they get a lot in return. Saying "he gave me stability, while I gave him stability" however seems less likely, as you rarely trade X for X. ("I'll give you $1000 if you give me 1000$.") Relationships often experience a crisis if it started out with a transaction of X for Y and as one part develops he suddenly needs Z instead of Y. If the crisis can't be resolved, he'll start investing less in the relationship unless duty/feeling kind/other rewards still makes the investment potentially worth it.

Of course we'll come up with other explanations when things like this actually happens, as we don't want to sound like cold, ruthless economists, but if you look at the underlying patterns, you'll see that this dynamic explains quite a bit.
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
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Apr 14, 2008
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ENFJ
Sociology, I see.

What happens if somebody lacks these positive feelings when they interact, though? I guess that'd be that 16-25 age range or something.

I do realize I'm sounding a little stupid. I'm just far out of my element.
 

Carebear

will make your day
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Apr 23, 2007
Messages
1,449
MBTI Type
INFP
Sociology, I see.

What happens if somebody lacks these positive feelings when they interact, though? I guess that'd be that 16-25 age range or something.

I do realize I'm sounding a little stupid. I'm just far out of my element.

Yes, I guess it's sociology. I lifted it from social anthropology to try to use it in my masters thesis in history, so I'm no expert. As for lacking positive feelings, that's just one of many potential gains from transactions/interaction. Interacting to confirm that you're much smarter than the world and the world sucks could be a reward for such a person I guess, and they'd probably love to seek out the most sensitive persons and get them to act predictably dumb in order to get the biggest payoff. The sensitive person would probably keep interacting for a while hoping to help the person become better at social interaction and might also feel kind for being such a good friend to accept insults and keep investing, but in the end he'd realize that the chances of success were too small for such a large investment and stop the interaction. (There are of course thousands of other rewards each could reap from the interaction, but the point here is that people tend to stop investing when they don't gain anything enough from the interaction to cover the costs.)
 

wedekit

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Nov 10, 2007
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INFJ
I'll complain about a weakness I have as an INFJ that I hate. It seems like I always spend more time planning for something than I actually spend doing it. I think this same observation can be applied to my mind as well. I spend so much time building up my "framework" (imagination) that I don't really use it for anything. And the sad thing is that at this point I really don't know how to.
 

redacted

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Nov 28, 2007
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carebear stated my position quite eloquently.

@wedekit: i agree -- i also have the same problem. it sucks...
 

Motor Jax

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Apr 19, 2008
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INFJ
same here

i usually plan my bills, but come payday, i'm assed out for the next 2 weeks, wondering what the heck happened to my paycheck
 

Mermaid

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Jul 28, 2008
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12
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xxfj
Don't have an Infj around in an emergency because they will just dissociate and walk around in a stupor, pretending everthing's okay.

There eyes seem to be looking out at you but really are staring in at themselves.

They have a superior little smirk on thier faces because they are busy thinking about how complex and special they are.

Some of them care about humanity, for example, but not people.

They believe menial tasks are beneath them. Fairy princesses shouldn't be bothered with such things.

They think refusing to let a thought enter thier mind is the same as changing something in the real world.....Like if they don't let themselves think there's a problem with another person that's the same as there not being a problem. So don't BRING IT UP. Or you will be banished.

But don't ask me. I don't know any.
 

TSDesigner

Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
209
MBTI Type
INTJ
I don't hate INFJ's, but INFJ's seem to be the most negative thinkers and the biggest whiners and complainers of all the personality types. They'll complain loudly and regularly about how things aren't going well for them. They talk about how the things they're trying are not working out for them, BUT they absolutely refuse to change. They'll keep doing exactly the same things that that don't work and they'll keep making the same complaints pretty much forever. They don't take personal responsibility for solving their problems. They'd rather blame other people and external circumstances for everything. They didn't listen to me when I tried to give them advice on other forums (long before I found this forum). All these things that INFJ's do are the opposite of what the success gurus recommend.
 

iwakar

crush the fences
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
4,877
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I don't hate INFJ's, but INFJ's seem to be the most negative thinkers and the biggest whiners and complainers of all the personality types. They'll complain loudly and regularly about how things aren't going well for them. They talk about how the things they're trying are not working out for them, BUT they absolutely refuse to change. They'll keep doing exactly the same things that that don't work and they'll keep making the same complaints pretty much forever. They don't take personal responsibility for solving their problems. They'd rather blame other people and external circumstances for everything. They didn't listen to me when I tried to give them advice on other forums (long before I found this forum). All these things that INFJ's do are the opposite of what the success gurus recommend.

This version is better than the last and more telling. Now that you've got that off your chest, welcome round these INFJ infested parts.

:blows a bubble:
 

sculpting

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Jan 28, 2009
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4,148
I don't hate INFJ's, but INFJ's seem to be the most negative thinkers and the biggest whiners and complainers of all the personality types. They'll complain loudly and regularly about how things aren't going well for them. They talk about how the things they're trying are not working out for them, BUT they absolutely refuse to change. They'll keep doing exactly the same things that that don't work and they'll keep making the same complaints pretty much forever. They don't take personal responsibility for solving their problems. They'd rather blame other people and external circumstances for everything. They didn't listen to me when I tried to give them advice on other forums (long before I found this forum). All these things that INFJ's do are the opposite of what the success gurus recommend.

I actually like the few INFJs I know. They call me on my Ne bullshit.

But could this be an innate INTJ-INFJ issue? Us ENFPs tend to have all types of confusion with the ENTPs even though we adore them due to the function mixup on the aux and tert level. I would expect the same pattern here as well.

Dont worry, I'll always love INTJs too.
 

CzeCze

RETIRED
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
8,975
MBTI Type
GONE
Mang, I wish I knew enough INFJs irl to hate you guys! ;)

No really, I think I'm supposed to be dating one of you right now. Or an INTJ.

Where are you so you can complete me????

ps ^^ this is a joke people.
 
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