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  1. #71
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    I find peace in being a taciturn who occasionally extroverts
    but its hard though,
    in that i cannot relate to others
    or rather, i will not
    for i have yet to find someone that i can relate to on a level that i want to
    no more an INFJ qualm than an idealistic person's poblem
    and.....
    watching people play " guess who " with my behaviour and mannerisms is quite amusing
    for they are completely and idiotically off base
    perhaps i am a snob ?
    no
    just an INFJ
    some would say that is the same thing
    and due to subjectivity, who am I to argue with that ?
    I N V I C T U S

  2. #72
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    Nope. I merely meant by passive resistance, that one isn't *doing* anything by being passive - by not being active/Fe-ing to 'organize', so it doesn't seem an INFJ would use it as a first choice of getting their point across. And that isn't to say that by not choosing so, that an INFJ is willing to inflict violence against someone. I shall continue below~

    That's what I was, in my sleepy-drunken haze, getting at. I can't see INFJs as passively resisting, in that they'd *Fe* out and try to tell people what they *should* do, even if wrongly, whereas INFPs are more likely to show by example and not push people. Live, let live.
    I think you misunderstand Ghandi's idea of passive resistance. It was never passive in the way you seem to think, quite the opposite. He did Fe to 'organize' and had perfectionistic ideals both he and the people around him had to follow. It was only passive in that it was non-violent. He only led by example where he couldn't tell people directly how to live, and was not a live and let live guy, or he hadn't followed such a rigid course both publicly in SA and India and privately.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    INFPs can be very self-disciplined, with their beliefs and ideals, for sure. If he had his life down to a script, as you say, then that doesn't seem INFJ to me either. INFJs aren't, or I wouldn't consider them to be, eh, so controlling that they'd have their life down to a script. Sure, disciplined, but not so rigidly so, or for an incredibly extended amount of time...
    Hm... are you saying he can't be neither INFP nor INFJ because of this or that he's more likely INFP because they can be more diciplined with their beliefs and ideals than INFJs? I disagree with the latter. I think both can be very diciplined, but INFJs more so than INFPs.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    Nope, not mixing them up. When I meant rally, I didn't mean it with high energy, if that's what you're thinking. I meant that we'd tell others what they should do, that they should get involved. Fe IS about organizing people as well. It's a Judging Function.
    And Ghandi did exactly that. Organizing boycots and strikes, getting people to use Indian spun cotton instead of British etc. The movie might portray him more as an INFP, but in reality he looks very J.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    Somewhat aside, I can sooner see Hitler as an INFJ than Gandhi one...
    Building walls around your position I see?
    I have arms for a fucking reaosn, so come hold me. Then we'll fuvk! Whoooooh! - GZA

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carebear View Post
    I think you misunderstand Ghandi's idea of passive resistance. It was never passive in the way you seem to think, quite the opposite. He did Fe to 'organize' and had perfectionistic ideals both he and the people around him had to follow. It was only passive in that it was non-violent. He only led by example where he couldn't tell people directly how to live, and was not a live and let live guy, or he hadn't followed such a rigid course both publicly in SA and India and privately.
    Yes, his organizing outside of the 'passive resistance' would seem to be Fe, in how he did it. I probably have misunderstood it, then. It's just the idea of it I'm griping with, not his overall history as I don't recall it well in detail.

    Hm... are you saying he can't be neither INFP nor INFJ because of this or that he's more likely INFP because they can be more diciplined with their beliefs and ideals than INFJs? I disagree with the latter. I think both can be very diciplined, but INFJs more so than INFPs.
    Not that he'd be more of an INFP because of his being more diciplined with beliefs and ideals... o_O nor that INFPs would be more diciplined than INFJs, in general. I'd think INFJs more initially of being so too. Just that, if he had his life down to a script, it being so rigid and exact, then I wouldn't think so of either.

    And Ghandi did exactly that. Organizing boycots and strikes, getting people to use Indian spun cotton instead of British etc. The movie might portray him more as an INFP, but in reality he looks very J.
    I don't buy the J/P stereotypes, if you mean that Js are more likley to be organized than Ps, etc. It's been said, though, that NJs are said to be more like P The weakest of the Js, oh noes!

    Building walls around your position I see?
    lol Just playing around. I'm not taking this as seriously as it might seem I am However, I won't change my mind until I read more about him and learn of his Interaction Style, among other things. I just don't care to do it right now (and don't have time to anyway T_T).

  4. #74
    heart on fire
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    Ghandi does not have Fi eyes. Case closed for me. INFJ.

    Kierkegaard INFP, writing under pennames to reach individuals on a one to one level about the deepest issues in their nature. That's Fi.

  5. #75
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    Nope. I merely meant by passive resistance, that one isn't *doing* anything by being passive - by not being active/Fe-ing to 'organize', so it doesn't seem an INFJ would use it as a first choice of getting their point across. And that isn't to say that by not choosing so, that an INFJ is willing to inflict violence against someone. I shall continue below~
    My sense is that your argument is less about Gandhi than it is about someone who "passively resists" according to your idea of passive resistance, which as you describe it does not describe Gandhi's history.

    I feel CareBear adequately addressed the issues I felt were being misunderstood about Gandhi's life in your assessment.

    My main goal in engaging with you was not to argue for one type or another, but to point out misunderstandings in your assumptions and also to engage the idea that typing others, historical or not, based only on observable externalized behavior interpreted through a narrow personalized criteria of what a particular type must look like is a tenuous affair.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by tovlo View Post
    My sense is that your argument is less about Gandhi than it is about someone who "passively resists" according to your idea of passive resistance, which as you describe it does not describe Gandhi's history.
    I realised that as well. It was the idea of passive resistance which I just focused on.

    My main goal in engaging with you was not to argue for one type or another, but to point out misunderstandings in your assumptions and also to engage the idea that typing others, historical or not, based only on observable externalized behavior interpreted through a narrow personalized criteria of what a particular type must look like is a tenuous affair.
    Beautifully worded. I have no complaints. I mostly was playing, but I do know that I can narrow down on something and become stubborn about it, if I'm not careful in maintaining an open minded view. Anyhoo, it was fun! Thank you for engaging me~

  7. #77
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    Beautifully worded. I have no complaints. I mostly was playing, but I do know that I can narrow down on something and become stubborn about it, if I'm not careful in maintaining an open minded view. Anyhoo, it was fun! Thank you for engaging me~
    Thank you for being a good sport.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  8. #78
    señor member colmena's Avatar
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    I don't know how anyone could 'hate' an INFJ. Even their less appealing points are endearing human imperfections.

    Is their conscience elitist?
    http://badges.mypersonality.info/badge/0/6/68764.png
    Ti Ne Fi Ni

    -How beautiful, this pale Endymion hour.
    -What are you talking about?
    -Endymion, my dear. A beautiful youth possessed by the moon.
    -Well, forget about him and get to bed.
    -Yes, my dear.

  9. #79
    More human than human MetalWounds's Avatar
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    INFJs, trough the use of dominant Ni, possess the same abstract perception of reality that INTJs do. The "problem" arises with their aux. use of Fe, which unlike Te, doesn't classify their perceptions as a possible truth, be instead applies it as the truth. Not only does it seek to classify something as either "good" or "bad", it also seeks to apply this perception to other people. INFJs suffer from a limited view of the possibilities in this aspect, and it has led to a lot of conflict between myself and others. They perceive something as the truth and likewise any other view, however plausible is ruled out and met with extreme resistance. Disagree with an INFJ and they will likely tell you that you "have no conceince", because any view they take has to be the ultimate moral truth. I've noted that INFJs are among the types that are least likely to be able to weigh a reality in an objective manner.
    I'm doing science and I'm still alive
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  10. #80
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalWounds View Post
    I've noted that INFJs are among the types that are least likely to be able to weigh a reality in an objective manner.
    Eh, as an INFJ, I believe that I simply recognize that objectivity is largely impossible anyway. I'm pretty darn good at observing the multifarious subjectivities of reality without being excessively judgmental of them, though.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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