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  1. #131
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Oh! That was it! Gawd damn Ayn Rand worshiping INTJs! :steam:

    It is hard for me to forget, she is like the anthema to everything in my being. She takes a thread of truth and distorts it out.

  2. #132
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    It is hard for me to forget, she is like the anthema to everything in my being. She takes a thread of truth and distorts it out.
    Oh, she is the master of retortion, the ultimate NTJ tactic, which in accordance with OmNi shifts is the most self deceiving fallacy imaginable. She created an ideology that has psychologically corrupted generations of NTJs. I can't help but think of Ayn Rand worshipers as people who have been brainwashed into a cult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  3. #133
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    if you guys don't mind explaining, who's ayn rand and what are her beliefs?

  4. #134
    Wild Card Atomic Fiend's Avatar
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    I'm also curious, I've heard you speaking of her before but am too lazy to click on the google link in my toolbar.

  5. #135
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    if you guys don't mind explaining, who's ayn rand and what are her beliefs?
    That is a bit tough since there is so much. The basic idea is she created an ideology which she dubbed objectivism which argues that the highest pursuit in life for every human being is self-preservation and self-promotion and rejects altruism as irrational and illogical. It bases this assertion on the idea that reality is completely knowable by individual human beings, and the concept of individual freedom exists as a standard outside of human conception and is therefore absolute. Any violation of individual freedom is therefore unethical. The argument then is taxes and government regulation on markets are unethcial because the government utilizes the threat of imprisonment or fines for anyone who does not pay their taxes or follow government imposed regulations. Government is therefore the ultimate evil because it limits individual freedom by "coercion" and capitalism is the greatest good because it sets each man as equal since people earn and survive based on their abilities and effort.

    Why is she wrong? Because people will always "coerce" others, whether it is through the controlled processes of the government or by hiring armed men to control others by force (as warlords do in anarchistic nations where capitalism is allowed to reign free without any government intervention). Government is therefore a necessary evil since it is limited in what individual freedoms it can take away. Hence why we have the concept of social contracts in which people give up some of their individual freedom in exchange for the protection by the government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  6. #136
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    oh. that's pretty stupid.

    although i agree with "the highest pursuit in life for every human being is self-preservation and self-promotion". but altruism for most is beneficial to the self because it makes you feel good, etc. (i'm sure you've heard that reasoning a million times)

    all the anti-government shit is retarded, though.

  7. #137
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    oh. that's pretty stupid.

    although i agree with "the highest pursuit in life for every human being is self-preservation and self-promotion". but altruism for most is beneficial to the self because it makes you feel good, etc. (i'm sure you've heard that reasoning a million times)

    all the anti-government shit is retarded, though.
    Well I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that "the highest pursuit in life for every human being is self-preservation and self-promotion" because that almost inevitably leads people to become self centered and they seek to maximize their pleasures, often at the expense of others, and become psychologically stagnated because they have difficulty in looking beyond their own needs or experiencing satisfaction in taking care of the needs of others. Some psychologists even believe it causes mental illness because the believers of enlightened self interest usually suffer difficulties in relationships and as parents. It is a socially isolating axiom that denies the interdependent nature of humans. We are social animals, and part of that is learning to appreciate and care for the needs of others.

    But I'll admit that I'm a supporter of the archetype INFJ's highest pursuit. "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  8. #138
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I can see "self-preservation and self-promotion" as being the original pursuit of life but it can't be final. Using it as the final pursuit of life is very immature. It looks like an extremely easy trap to fall into, though, hence Ayn Rand's popularity, I guess.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #139
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    well people just have to realize that they're more likely to be happy when they are nice to others. if you cut people off by being mean, you suffer. sacrificing yourself for others in a healthy way is a long term investment that most likely benefits you.

    it's still self-promotion, though.

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I can see "self-preservation and self-promotion" as being the original pursuit of life but it can't be final. Using it as the final pursuit of life is very immature. It looks like an extremely easy trap to fall into, though, hence Ayn Rand's popularity, I guess.
    Ayn Rand is most popular amount young white males, ages 16-25. That is the time in life where most people have established their identity and have entered the intimacy vs. isolation crisis described by Erickson. It's a period in people's lives where they begin to form relationships and they have to learn that their identities will not disappear by becoming interdependent on others. Failure to do so results in isolation. Those who get past it can then begin to work toward generativity or the interest in establishing and guiding the next generation.

    I would say Ayn Rand to the end of her life had the emtional intelligence of a 20 year old.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

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