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  1. #91
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    sure, but Ni and Fe aren't the only functions INFJs use. i use Ni/Fe for moral/ethical concerns, and i use Ni/Ti in my quest for truth. i'm obsessed with truth and always have been -- i NEED to know exactly why and how everything works (cause/effect relationships, etc.). if i can't figure something out, i have a really hard time functioning -- it eats away at me -- i can't relax at all until my Ti is satisfied.
    What kind of truth?

    I need to understand the meaning of things and find connections or new ways in how they can be utilized, but truth is simply so subjective, it would be a waste of my time to pursue such a thing. The reality is that every individual has a different conception of truth, because everyone has different perceptions, experiences, and values.

    The INFJ is on a crusade to preserve their integrity which means basing their actions on an internally consistent framework of principles. It's why we are so stubborn and unyielding. Ni/Fe is not "moral/ethical concerns" it is the defining essence of the INFJ. It leads us to make assumptions with very little information and to stand by our convictions long after reasoning would indicate that we should change our stance. It's the INTPs who seek absolute accuracy and clarity.

    INFJs use tertiary Ti to understand where another person is coming from, by following their logic. Your self description just sounds much more like dominant Ti.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP Profile
    Introverted Thinking strives to extract the essence of the Idea from various externals that express it. In the extreme, this conceptual essence wants no form or substance to verify its reality. Knowing the Truth is enough for INTPs; the knowledge that this truth can (or could) be demonstrated is sufficient to satisfy the knower. "Cogito, ergo sum" expresses this prime directive quite succinctly.
    I just don't see what you are basing your belief that you are INFJ on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  2. #92
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    What kind of truth?

    I need to understand the meaning of things and find connections or new ways in how they can be utilized, but truth is simply so subjective, it would be a waste of my time to pursue such a thing. The reality is that every individual has a different conception of truth, because everyone has different perceptions, experiences, and values.
    well, yeah... truth is technically "subjective". but if you define a frame of reference, it can still be absolute inside of that frame (physics, math, etc.)

    but even in philosophy, it makes sense to quest for truth. for example, dualism is inconsistent with itself and monism isn't, therefore monism is true according to my reasoning. i can also use pieces of reasoning from computer science and my intuition to deduce that functionalism is also true (the notion that if two things function the same way, they are the same).

    etc.

    The INFJ is on a crusade to preserve their integrity which means basing their actions on an internally consistent framework of principles. It's why we are so stubborn and unyielding. Ni/Fe is not "moral/ethical concerns" it is the defining essence of the INFJ. It leads us to make assumptions with very little information and to stand by our convictions long after reasoning would indicate that we should change our stance. It's the INTPs who seek absolute accuracy and clarity.
    the first bolded part is all about Ti reasoning.

    the second bolded part just isn't true. Ni doesn't just stop working. if you come across new information (like that you are logically incorrect), Ni will integrate that information.

    INFJs use tertiary Ti to understand where another person is coming from, by following their logic. Your self description just sounds much more like dominant Ti.
    who's to say that Ti can't be developed further than that? i was raised by an INTP father, who i modeled my coping strategies after. withdraw, analyze, figure out how things work. the more you figure out, the better you can strategize to protect yourself.

    I just don't see what you are basing your belief that you are INFJ on.
    i'm basing it on the fact that i'm an Ni dom and i navigate the outer world through Fe. just because you don't focus as much as i do on Ti doesn't mean i'm not an INFJ.

    also, i'm amazingly good at figuring out people's assumptions and beliefs with very little information, i'm a great therapist (everyone always calls me when they're down), and i have a very strong system of principles that i stick by. when i've fallen short of these principles, i'm screwed up for weeks, i lose sleep, and i do anything in my power to make it up to people that have been hurt.

    i'm an INFJ.

    Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
    extraverted Sensing (Se) ************* (13)
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    introverted Sensing (Si) ****** (6)
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    extraverted Intuiting (Ne) *********************************** (35.5)
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    introverted Intuiting (Ni) *********************************************** (47.5)
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    extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************* (19)
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    introverted Thinking (Ti) ******************************************** (44.3)
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    introverted Feeling (Fi) *************************** (27.2)
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  3. #93
    Senior Member Motor Jax's Avatar
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    i read the title, and thought, "who be hatin' the INFJ's now?"


    "i reckon we ain't seen but a few of 'em the last week or two"






    ha ha, just feeling pretty good right now...

  4. #94
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    ialso, i'm amazingly good at figuring out people's assumptions and beliefs with very little information, i'm a great therapist (everyone always calls me when they're down), and i have a very strong system of principles that i stick by. when i've fallen short of these principles, i'm screwed up for weeks, i lose sleep, and i do anything in my power to make it up to people that have been hurt.
    Ah, well if you have developed Ti, then that doesn't make you the typical INFJ does it? The typical INFJ is stubborn, unyielding, relentless, moody, and seeks the best possible framework of principles for interacting with the outside world. The other functions are usually in danger of becoming slaves to the Ni and the result is we stick to things come hell or high water. But perhaps it is possible that those who master Ti can be more aloof and distant. Nonetheless, I still don't see why an INFJ would seek truth over personal growth and dedication. What kind of truth are you looking for? A philosophical truth or a logical truth?

    I've dedicated a great deal of energy in the pursuit of philosophical truths about the nature of reality. I invite you to share some of your insight in my old Objectivism vs. Relativism thread. Is that kind of truth you are talking about? My views are probably much more consistent with a duality than yours, but I'm just curious if your "truth" is of the same nature as mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  5. #95
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Ah, well if you have developed Ti, then that doesn't make you the typical INFJ does it? The typical INFJ is stubborn, unyielding, relentless, moody, and seeks the best possible framework of principles for interacting with the outside world. The other functions are usually in danger of becoming slaves to the Ni and the result is we stick to things come hell or high water. But perhaps it is possible that those who master Ti can be more aloof and distant. Nonetheless, I still don't see why an INFJ would seek truth over personal growth and dedication. What kind of truth are you looking for? A philosophical truth or a logical truth?
    Question for you kiddo... what is a "typical" INFJ? I thought the first rule for us is always being unique.

    There's really no reason why INFJs couldn't have a developed Ti.

    It is only the INFJ who relies too much on Fe that is stubborn, unyielding, relentless...

    As to personal goals... It's hard to define what consists of valid ones and which "doesn't"... afterall there is the saying "Truth will set you free."

  6. #96
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    It is only the INFJ who relies too much on Fe that is stubborn, unyielding, relentless...
    I'm just reiterating what a lot of INFJs agreed to in the singlemindedness thread. In fact, I think every INFJ in that thread but dissonance agreed that those are traits inherent in INFJs. I actually think it is when all the other functions become slaves to the Ni, that we end up that way. Fe is about harmony, so it doesn't make sense that reliance on it would lead to inharmonious situations where a person is stubborn and unyielding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  7. #97
    Wild Card Atomic Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I'm just reiterating what a lot of INFJs agreed to in the singlemindedness thread. In fact, I think every INFJ in that thread but dissonance agreed that those are traits inherent in INFJs.
    *Waits to see who buys that*- Fuck, never mind the joke. Dude you are totally testing him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I actually think it is when all the other functions become slaves to the Ni, that we end up that way. Fe is about harmony, so it doesn't make sense that reliance on it would lead to inharmonious situations where a person is stubborn and unyielding.
    And you'd be correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Personality pages Personal Growth for the INFJ
    Most of the weaker characteristics that are found in INFJs are due to their dominant function (Introverted iNtuition) overtaking their personality to the point that the other forces in their personality exist merely to serve the purposes of Introverted iNtuition. In such cases, an INFJ may show some or all of the following weaknesses in varying degrees:

  8. #98
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Question for you kiddo... what is a "typical" INFJ? I thought the first rule for us is always being unique.

    There's really no reason why INFJs couldn't have a developed Ti.
    And there's really no reason why INFJs couldn't have poorly developed Ti. Most lie somewhere in the middle, so an INFJ with well developed Ti wouldn't be typical. Still INFJ though.
    I have arms for a fucking reaosn, so come hold me. Then we'll fuvk! Whoooooh! - GZA

  9. #99
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Ah, well if you have developed Ti, then that doesn't make you the typical INFJ does it? The typical INFJ is stubborn, unyielding, relentless, moody, and seeks the best possible framework of principles for interacting with the outside world.
    well i was just responding to this:

    I just don't see what you are basing your belief that you are INFJ on.
    i never said i was the typical INFJ. my point was more that i'm an exception to a lot of the "rules" you state, which means they're not good rules.

    but yeah, i'm overall looking for a philosophical truth (which i've long since found and been satisfied by).

    but in the short term, i look for logically consistent explanations for everything that crosses my threshold of what i deem important. everything. Ni does a lot of the work -- comparing new data to past pattern structures. but Ti does all the deductive work. Ni then checks Ti's work to see if it can fit with other patterns, if not, it changes around some assumptions and gives them back to Ti. my mind is satisfied when BOTH Ni and Ti are satisfied -- in other words, when something is logical AND fits perfectly into other patterns.

    my impersonal analysis stuff only takes me so far, though. i'm completely reliant on people. this is where Fe is important. when i'm around people i'm comfortable with, Ni/Fe/Ti all work together to paint a picture of exactly what they're thinking and which assumptions they have. i challenge myself to see how far i can go with little body language hints, choices of wording, etc. it's a much better and more fulfilling puzzle than math or physics or computer science (although those are fun too). and it's nice for my friends because they don't have to constantly explain things to me.

    i'm 90% sure i'm gonna be a therapist.

  10. #100
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    I think where I am having issues with your explanation is in how you claim to utilize Ni.

    Ni does a lot of the work -- comparing new data to past pattern structures
    That is what Ne does, not what Ni does. INFJs are called the foreseers because we utilize Ni to predict what will happen with patterns, not comparing data to past patterns. It is Ne that takes new data and interprets it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

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