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  1. #1
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Default ENFPs and Vengeance

    I know the descriptions make us out to be butterfly chasing lost boys in Neverland (and we are much of the time lol) but I also think that behind this playful, exuberant exterior is a hidden side of great anger and vengeance to the ENFP that can come out at certain times when faced with a particular form of injustice
    - as an ENFP, do you relate to this?
    - what experiences have you had with these feelings

    for me personally, I've always kind of considered myself a sort of protector of children and anyone hurting or mistreating a child evokes severe rage in me (like the kind where you have to remind yourself that killing or severely bludgeoning them would be against the law)
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
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    laws? they hold no morality in them. in fact, laws distort morality and create a false sense of justice.

    we live in times where evil can thrive, and they do so in such numbers the only way to stop them is by a civil war, thus removing them.
    if a person chose to be a psychopath, you would nicely follow the laws when he/she is legally destroying lives through monetary/manipulative means?
    well, thats the world we live in, and the psychopaths are elites of our societies thus dictating the terms.

  3. #3
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Seems to me, Elfboy, that you're talking about when Fi and Te work together. This is what we call the ENFP Te-bitchslap. So yeah. I totally identify.

    There are a couple of threads on this.

    But let me quote myself re: this phenomenon. I think it explains what you're describing very well:

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    The Te Bitchslap* is an example of and ENFP's Fi and Te working in concert:

    Fi feels indignant about some perceived wrong +
    Te decides to let the perpetrator of said perceived wrong know about it....
    usually in excruciating detail in a very logical manner.
    = ENFP Te Bitchslap

    #1 - When the Te Bitchslap is delivered, the other person's vulnerabilities / social niceties are not taken into consideration. (Letting social niceties take a back seat when a wrong is perceived is very, very Fi.) Marmie Dearest described this aspect of Fi very well in one of her posts:

    Marmie Dearest: It's just that Fi is much more concerned with their internal feeling of what is right and true, even if that means being disruptive. It's not like seeking disruption, but not minding if you cause it if it promotes what the Fi user sees as right or true. Authenticity is seen as paramount, even though Fi users may also like harmony. For Fe users it seems that harmony and connection are paramount, even though they may also like authenticity.
    #2 - Te steps in. What is of utmost importance to Te (ENFP's tertiary function) is to communicate in a dispassionate manner how wrong the other person is. Another characteristic of the Te Bitchslap is that it tends to be very well-organized. For example, when I've given a Te Bitchslap in writing, I tend to bullet point and sequentially number it. This is very Te of me. Te likes to figure out how to get to from Point A to Point B in the most logical and concise manner possible. Or think of it like this: Te was made for PowerPoint presentations. Imagine having to deliver a critique of someone via a PowerPoint slide show.... Well you get the idea.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  4. #4
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    I've never said it out loud before, but was going to mention it at some point.

    If someone is mean to me I can let it slide. I always assumed that it was physical size (I'm 6'3"/6'4"ish) that has kept me from having to deal with confrontation my whole life. But honestly its probably been my ability to mediate. If you're mean to me I might daydream about doing something nasty to you. But I've got enough tools to keep myself from doing it. Maybe I get upset, but I'll let it slide. Work it out in my own head. Maybe think up a response later.

    But if someone is mean to someone else. Or hurts something. Its over. Rage in my life when personally slighted as always been cold and calculated but I've always managed to not act upon it. But rage when someone does something to someone else is thoughtless. Instant and its overwhelming suggestion of overwhelming amounts of unbearable pain have also always ended those situations too.
    A Fox isn't sly. He just can't think any slower.

  5. #5
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    @Esoteric Wench
    sort of, it seems a particularly popular pass time among ENFP 7w8s at least. in fact, it's gotten to the point with me where my normal communication style has absorbed aspects of the Ne/Te bitch slap (in terms of structure and clear organization)

    sometimes I think it runs deeper than that though. it doesn't take a lot for me to administer an Ne/Te bitch slap (it can range from funny and even somewhat nice to total annihilation; from gently correcting someone by showing them empirical logic to outright destroying their entire belief system and thought processes) but this is something much more severe, like a strong form of punitive, condemning anger (for me it comes out primarily when I see children being mistreated)
    (from one of my posts on personality cafe on the same subject)
    thank you for providing contrast.
    as a whole
    - I think the ESTP's vengeance is a little more sudden to emerge; sudden to leave, less personal, though usually extremely physically intimidating and intense for a brief period.
    - ISTP's vengeance is marked by controlled tension and patience followed by swift brutality and excessively cruelty. all the while maintaining a calm expression and probably not saying anything
    - the ENFP's vengeance surfaces rarely, but is intense and vindictive and lingers longer. often it's more condemning and tends to frame it's adversary as evil or less than human "they're like animals! and i slaughtered them like animals! I hate them
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  6. #6
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsune413 View Post
    I've never said it out loud before, but was going to mention it at some point.
    If someone is mean to me I can let it slide. I always assumed that it was physical size (I'm 6'3"/6'4"ish) that has kept me from having to deal with confrontation my whole life. But honestly its probably been my ability to mediate. If you're mean to me I might daydream about doing something nasty to you. But I've got enough tools to keep myself from doing it. Maybe I get upset, but I'll let it slide. Work it out in my own head. Maybe think up a response later.
    But if someone is mean to someone else. Or hurts something. Its over. Rage in my life when personally slighted as always been cold and calculated but I've always managed to not act upon it. But rage when someone does something to someone else is thoughtless. Instant and its overwhelming suggestion of overwhelming amounts of unbearable pain have also always ended those situations too.
    I think ENFPs are often the protectors of the innocent and children, though we may not seem like it at first
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  7. #7
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    @Esoteric Wench this is something much more severe [than an ENFP Te-bitchslap], like a strong form of punitive, condemning anger (for me it comes out primarily when I see children being mistreated)
    That sounds like hallmark Fi indignation at a perceived injustice to me. I'm very quick to forgive and forget, but if certain of my Fi values are crossed, then watch out! I'm ruthless in beating down the offender. And, I can remember/nurse such righteous anger for what seem like (at least for an ENFP) a very, very long time.

    So I never thought of this as vengeance before, but I guess it is. Hmmm... interesting.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  8. #8
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    That sounds like hallmark Fi indignation at a perceived injustice to me. I'm very quick to forgive and forget, but if certain of my Fi values are crossed, then watch out! I'm ruthless in beating down the offender. And, I can remember/nurse such righteous anger for what seem like (at least for an ENFP) a very, very long time.
    So I never thought of this as vengeance before, but I guess it is. Hmmm... interesting.
    for me, this point comes when I eventually deem the core of someone's belief system and way of living as morally atrocious "they're like animals! and I slaughtered them like animals!" (Anakin Skywalker, ENFP 8w7) is what I would think were I to act on these feelings of vengeance
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  9. #9
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    i don't relate to the part about seeking vengeance but i do feel very protective of children or really just anyone who is being taken advantage or not being treated with respect or is in some way being stripped of their power...like they are less than...i can't take it...it's like some odd alien instinct gets tripped and our singular focus...is must protect the weak...weird stuff..very apt name..the advocate.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  10. #10
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Often anger i feel towards others is short lived, i am generally not one to hold grudges but there have been rare isolated occaisions. Like the above i feel compelled to intervene when it is concerning someone less able i.e a child being bullied or a teen is being mobbed. In those instances i am likely to act without much planning at all...those are times when a delay for thinking purposes can be crucially detrimental to the situation at hand. However it is remarkable how calm i can be in those situations...almost like things go in slow motion and i am able to think and act superhumanley fast. That is also the case in times of emergency.
    As for bitterness and long term resentment i deal with those in a very different way. Because i am often emotionally aware of my own feelings towards things i may for example...have a good cry to clear space for the positive thoughts and also to create pathways to solutions.
    I said recently, regarding a person who has caused me a great deal of pain and betrayed my trust on a highly intense and deep level, that i would still help them if they desperately needed it and asked for it, not that i havn't fantasized about declining putting them out if they were on fire...when the hurt was the rawest at least.
    But i find it difficult to hold onto negative feelings towards others because i find it taxing on myself...and cancerous.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

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