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  1. #11
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Though I try and try, I still don't know how to tell the truth. I can sound quite sincere, but I still don't know if I say what I mean. Mostly, words just come out.

    Would and NF tell me to stop talking, then?
    Do you know the "truth" yet refuse to communicate it, or do you not know the "truth" and hence cannot communicate something you do not know?
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  2. #12
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Do you know the "truth" yet refuse to communicate it, or do you not know the "truth" and hence cannot communicate something you do not know?
    I don't know the truth, and even if I did know the truth I could not communicate it because I don't know how to communicate.

    'Truth' is a simple, little five-letter word but it's very, very, very, very difficult to pin down, especially personal truths. There are things that are absolutely obvious that can be checked for truth, such as, "There is a doorknob on that door" (go check for doorknob), but anything greater than that is difficult to verify.

    I don't intentionally lie. But I don't know if what I speak is truth, either.

  3. #13
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I don't intentionally lie. But I don't know if what I speak is truth, either.
    Same here, I just communicate with assumptions and educated guesses without going into the whole -find proof for your statement-.
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

  4. #14
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    ^ as long as it is perceived as being unconscious... I think NFs are fairly tolerant. When it gets to the stage of being "how can you possibly not see yourself as being fake yet you do nothing to correct it" then you have it coming.

  5. #15
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    What's the big deal about speaking from your unconscious anyway? I think about what I am going to say before I say it. Does that make it adulterated?
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

  6. #16
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Buddha View Post
    I'm an INFJ and I truly dislike anything that's phoney, artificial and shallow.
    ...
    When I communicate it's of highly importance to me to be authentic and sincere. I even feel I have a personal and social responsibility to tell the truth, sometimes in all its complexities, and I have a very hard time to compromise this worth even though I know that it's necessary for me to do so in order to communicate in a more efficient manner.

    Does anyone of you INFJ's (or other NF's) recognize this pattern of thought and feeling?
    Yes. That combined with dominant Ne means it takes me 5 years to express some theory I pulled out of my butt, and I usually end up on some tangent that I deem essential to the point. I try to say exactly what I mean, but there are just too many shades of meaning and not enough shades of lexium! Alas!

    I also have an irrational hatred of fake flowers...

  7. #17
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Okay, I'm going to go ahead and say my thoughts on the matter.

    My expressions are quite transparent. It's very easy to tell when I'm upset, I think you're an idiot, or I'm in total bliss. This is why I never play poker.

    Unfortunately these expressions often do not relate to the real world. They relate to whatever's going on in my head at that moment. Many people will think that there's something wrong with whatever's there at the current time when really there is not. Often I won't care to explain anything because 1) I know that they won't like it, 2) they won't understand it because it has nothing to do with anything at the present time or 3) by the time I finish explaining whatever I was thinking about in full, I would have already wasted about an hour of which I could be doing better, more productive things with my time.

    Integrity is great and all but I often find myself remaining silent because there are some things that other people simply don't need to know. They may be lies through exclusion, but they're lies because whatever it is does not concern you, you needn't worry about it, and any explanation would be much more trouble than it's worth.

    Now, NFs, does this make me a bad person? Does this make me artificial, fake, or shallow?

  8. #18
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    How could it? I don't define integrity as following the rules. While they do have value, rules can be used to save the obeyer from having to think/deliberate in a world of moral ambiguity. To apply the "Never lie/ Always tell the truth" law to the situation you described would be inappropriate, as:
    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    whatever it is does not concern you, you needn't worry about it, and any explanation would be much more trouble than it's worth.
    I didn't get the impression that that's what the OP meant (ie. you must tell the truth period). I interpreted Buddha as describing a sort of holy reverence for communication. Specifically, you should make the effort to make sure what you're saying is what you mean, and that that's what the other person understands, no matter how many words it takes. Hopefully Buddha will come back and enlighten us.

  9. #19
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriv View Post
    I think about what I am going to say before I say it. Does that make it adulterated?
    I say yes
    much like a bowl of cereal and a spoon
    you pick out what you consume,
    favoring the marshmallow rainbow over that darn horse shoe
    unless you close your eyes and eat
    even so
    you chose to eat a certain amount of cereal, via the bowl

    or something like that
    valid ?
    I N V I C T U S

  10. #20
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Now, NFs, does this make me a bad person? Does this make me artificial, fake, or shallow?
    I face a similar problem. At times, I do not show any facial expressions or body language at all. Does this make me a fake? I think when I get depressed, I get extremely apathetic.
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

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