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[NF] I can't feel humanity's pain.

FunnyDigestion

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I do tend to feel people's pain, & I wouldn't change it. It doesn't really make it harder to live, since it's a different feeling than inner depression. It just makes you feel more serious, less pointless.

Yeah, i wouldn't change it. When i'm in a public place my attentions naturally draw to the person who seems the most fucked-up & miserable, & then I spend all my energy wondering what they're thinking about.
 

Qlip

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Oh, yes, our double edged Fi. That's what this is... I feel so much better now.

[MENTION=10757]Nicodemus[/MENTION] I kind of remember Cze's vibe list.. haha, it did seem kind of disparate. Maybe you all vibed as stranger danger.
 

Santosha

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Anybody feel similar?

Yup. And I don't know if it's really e-gram related, I'm a 4. I agree/identify with almost everything in this thread. One thing I will add (don't think it was mentioned) is that while I can empathize a great deal with situations, I would describe myself as more inspired than empathetic. I believe, unconditionally, in the ability for humans to prevail almost any circumstance. I did not always feel this way either. Interaction with people personally and professionally aided it.

There is not a circumstance that cannot be improved through perception, knowledge and effort. No matter what physical condition one may be in, no matter how limited their resource.. they always have the choice to find something good, anything, and focus on it. Be grateful. Now obviously this could be extraordinarily difficult for say, a starving african child with flies on their face. Its gut-wrenching to be sure.. but there is always something that can make a persons existance less painful. It almost always involves focusing on what good you have, love and gratitude.

I used to 'put myself in others shoes' quite a bit, and then I'd come out horrified for how they must be feeling. There is a danger in assumptions, especially when a very sensitive person is doing the assuming. I might observe a very obese person walking down the hall at work and think to myself "How sad. That person wouldn't even look me in the eye. I wonder if they have been treated poorly their whole life, people can be so unkind. I bet peoples hurtful words have impacted that persons self-esteem. I bet they are very sad inside." Why? Why do I assume this person must hurt as I would? Perhaps they are more resilient? Perhaps they are less sensitive? Perhaps they are smarter and less affected by what idiots have to say? Perhaps my very thoughts are what are hurtful. I think you get the point. While identification with humanity IS a good thing (because I believe through this identification it makes us more aware of our actions) I also think it can be taken too far.
 

Coriolis

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If your heart bled for every wrong and injustice, you wouldn't stay sane for very long. I know peeps like that and they aren't. Save your compassion for people who deserve it. I think truly sensitive people get a little battle hardened. As one would in a world where it's seen as a weakness. That's why I tend to like animals more. For some reason it's considered a good thing if you are kind to animals.
Even from the perspective of tertiary Fi, the comments on Fi so far make sense. I can't tell with any certainty whether someone deserves compassion unless I know them, and even then, it can be hard to judge. I am much more likely to feel compassion for a broad group of people (e.g. the homeless) than specific individuals. In acting on my compassion, I try to do what will achieve the most good. This is as much a function of what my resources and abilities are, as what the needs are. I can't fix the world, but if I (and each of us) pick one or two areas where I (we) can actually make a difference, the world will be a better place.
 
G

garbage

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This is a thing that's hard to put into words.

I get into modes where I reflect upon the state of the world and wind up focusing on the negatives--especially when it comes to those in circumstances much worse than my own, especially those with mindsets that don't seem to allow them to escape their situations, and the pain that they 'must,' in my estimation at the time, be feeling. Of course, there's a lot of subjectivity, projection, and some inevitable naivete involved in my estimations--they're definitely not perfect.

The farther away something is from us--be it a person, a situation, a mindset--the more difficult it is for us to control. Of course, even controlling ourselves is difficult. Like [MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION], I try to focus on the things within my immediate influence first--and the thing that's under my most immediate influence is my own perception.
 

Kitsune413

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Feeling is a judging process. Its how you decide on whats important to you. A very coarse description would be to say that Thinking is 'True/False' and Feeling is "Agreeable/Disagreeable"

You should be able to look at a place in the world where people are suffering and understand that what is happening is wrong. But the vast majority of the people aren't going to do anything actionable about it. So if you turn around and let those emotions effect your real life relationships then its not a healthy reaction.

Or with your initial example if you're letting someone take advantage of you or you're going to suffer then generally that is a failure of balancing your judging reactions. Another thing to keep in mind is that its still just the judging process with how you decide things. Feeling can 'Dislike' just as well as it can 'like'.

I'm sure you're more empathetic than you think. Its illogical to be miserable because of the state of the world. But the world is also a thing. If you're an enfp you're going to empathize with people more than things. But being an ENFP also means you've got the intuition to see the empathy on both sides of a conflict.
 

King sns

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People would be a wreck if they let in all the problems of the world. It's a protective mechanism. I know personally, if I let my guard down a little bit a lot of crap pours in and then I can end up rather angry and bitter and upset. Gotta kind of glaze over things as a protective mechanism to function well. True for anyone, any type, I think. Just some may be more prone towards it than others.
 

King sns

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Thread has Fi written all over it.

:wubbie::hug::bunnyglee::bunnyglee::fairy::girlpower::flowerz::heart:

Wait a minute.... Was this meant to offend my value of being a unique individual???

:cry::mad::ranting::SaiyanSmilie_anim::pandarage::angry:
 

Betty Blue

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I do feel the worlds pain though. Not all of the time but theres are times when i think i could conbust with the suffering of others. For real. I don't push it away mostly but i do have to cut of in order to carry on living.
I have moments of revelation when i think my heart could burst. Those times i feel like a warrior and i need to fight, to charge at the world for all it's cruelty. I can be very emo.
 

Starry

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I do feel the worlds pain though. Not all of the time but theres are times when i think i could conbust with the suffering of others. For real. I don't push it away mostly but i do have to cut of in order to carry on living.
I have moments of revelation when i think my heart could burst. Those times i feel like a warrior and i need to fight, to charge at the world for all it's cruelty. I can be very emo.

I really identify with this.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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People would be a wreck if they let in all the problems of the world. It's a protective mechanism. I know personally, if I let my guard down a little bit a lot of crap pours in and then I can end up rather angry and bitter and upset. Gotta kind of glaze over things as a protective mechanism to function well. True for anyone, any type, I think. Just some may be more prone towards it than others.
^This is one important factor in how people react to the suffering of others.

It is worth looking at what empathy is and how it is developed. It's not necessarily something that happens without explanation or just "is". Perhaps there can be natural inclinations towards or away from empathy based on nature, but it is partly developed through experience, focus, and actions.

Empathy has a great deal to do with learning how to comprehend pain that is greater than what we have experienced personally and to not dismiss pain that is less than our own. If we can only feel others pain that matches our own, this is projection and not empathy. There is necessarily an element of relating our own personal experiences with those of others, but then being able to go beyond that to more closely match their actual experience. A person who has never been hungry with the fear of not being able to satisfy the hunger will be less likely to comprehend the nuance and depth of that experience.

I've noticed that when people pass judgment on others, it is often based on assumptions from their own life. They assume the person has whatever traits they would have to posses in their context to get the same result. Someone without temporal needs met must be lazy in the eyes of a person who only has to put forth a little effort to be paid and secure their food and shelter. The dynamic of actually being hungry and without shelter is complex and layered and involves more details than is easy to get one's head around without the actual experience.

As human beings it is easiest to substitute projection for empathy, to assume the other person is like us when we experienced something similar. It is possible to broaden one's experience by hearing more details about the lives and suffering of others and to start to build a more complete conceptual framework of suffering that is different or extends beyond our own, but it is a skill that has to be developed like anything else.
 

Forever_Jung

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We only take in so much sensory information at a time because it would overload our brain. The same applies to "feeling" the world's pain.

Sometimes people feel overwhelmed and take in too much of it, but no one can take in more than an infinitesimal amount of it.
 

Winds of Thor

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My suggestion would be take it a day at a time. Or an hour, or a minute at a time. Focusing on what your mind or feelings are telling you is the priority.
 

Stanton Moore

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How is compassion, which is directed at other people, a product of Fi?
 

tkae.

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You're an Extrovert, so it's harder for this to work. But generally NFs don't have as much a universal empathy as a very reactionary empathy.

That being, I'm a hardcore empathetic INFP that's usually in some form of misery because of what's happening to people. But there's also select groups that I border on hypocritical in my disregard for, particularly the pompous and the cruel.

Couldn't give a flying fuck about them. If Rush Limbaugh had a stroke, couldn't possibly care less. I'd have to go fish for a fuck to give. I could care, and I could care pretty easily if I wanted to. But I make it a point not to care.

So you aren't looking for an empathy towards random people around you. But if you spend more time caring about some type of cause or some group of people than you do in total nonconcern for the rest of the world, then you're likely an NF.

Which, like I said, is gonna be harder for you to do since you're an Extrovert. Extroverts aren't geared all that naturally towards being aware of their own inner emotional worlds. That's not saying they can't be, or that there isn't an Extrovert that's extremely skilled in Introspection. But a very Exroverted person trying to figure out what's going on inside of them is about as natural as me trying to be social :cry:

All that to say, you might be leaning more towards ENTPs, who are kickass by the way, they're really cool people. But look more for how often you care as opposed to how often you really couldn't care less. And if you care, what do you care about? Is it ideas? Or is it causes and people?

And not ideas that affect people, that counts towards being an NF.

But do you spend your time thinking, "What is reality and how would I graph it on a graphing calculator?"

Or actually, just go to take the test. Then come back here and we'll hug you. We're NFs, that's what we do (whether you're one of us or not).

So go, now. Shoo. Take the test. :bye:

Relevant Information: I went without caffeine for a week, I just had a Diet Coke.

Shazayum!
 

Salomé

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I don't think you're NF.


EDIT. No one can feel "humanity's pain", only their own.
 

sculpting

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I think I'm an NF, but I run on the callous side. It's not that I would ignore a starving person on the street, I wouldn't. But my heart strings aren't as tuggable as NFs here on the forum claim. There's so much pain in the world, and so many people out there aren't afraid of taking advantage of those who would give reflexively, having universal empathy would just wreck me.

Anybody feel similar?

I tend to very strongly feel the pain of others, even people I have never met or never will meet. It is simply an internal projection of what I percieve (correctly or incorrectly) that they feel, however the physiological response is still very real. When in doubt about the level of pain the other is in, my perceptions will amplify, rather than reduce the feeling of hurt.

This really is unpleasent and not functional. As you note thier is just too much pain in the world. As a defensive mechanism I long ago learned to develop a stiff upper lip and not allow my heart to always be open to others pain. This sounds really sad, but it allows me to shield myself somewhat from thier hurt. Thus rather than offer sympathy or extend an emotional arm, I tend to look for the physical concrete things I can do to help the other person or group of people.

Trying to help each individual seems so hopeless.

I am much more likely to feel compassion for a broad group of people (e.g. the homeless) than specific individuals. In acting on my compassion, I try to do what will achieve the most good. This is as much a function of what my resources and abilities are, as what the needs are. I can't fix the world, but if I (and each of us) pick one or two areas where I (we) can actually make a difference, the world will be a better place.

^^This sounds very much like my approach to the world.

Empathy has a great deal to do with learning how to comprehend pain that is greater than what we have experienced personally and to not dismiss pain that is less than our own. If we can only feel others pain that matches our own, this is projection and not empathy. There is necessarily an element of relating our own personal experiences with those of others, but then being able to go beyond that to more closely match their actual experience. A person who has never been hungry with the fear of not being able to satisfy the hunger will be less likely to comprehend the nuance and depth of that experience. .

This is very fascinating. I know that in myself I will tend towards the opposite of what you decsribe-when lacking information, I will over estimate the projected pain of the other person. The less I know of them, the more painful thier hurts are to me. The more I know someone, the more details I understand, the more I have been in their shoes, actually I can more accurately attune to thier emotional state-and determine if they do deserve empathy for that state. Often they actually desreve to be held accountable for how they ended up there, if they are to figure out a better course of action in the future.

(This is not to say your statement is incorrect-the general premise of projection and empathy is quite brilliant, but I think it may be that, as often seen before in other places, enfps and infjs tend to diverge into opposite directions initially, before reaching very similar conclusions. We grow towards one another.)

I've noticed that when people pass judgment on others, it is often based on assumptions from their own life. They assume the person has whatever traits they would have to posses in their context to get the same result. Someone without temporal needs met must be lazy in the eyes of a person who only has to put forth a little effort to be paid and secure their food and shelter. The dynamic of actually being hungry and without shelter is complex and layered and involves more details than is easy to get one's head around without the actual experience.

As human beings it is easiest to substitute projection for empathy, to assume the other person is like us when we experienced something similar. It is possible to broaden one's experience by hearing more details about the lives and suffering of others and to start to build a more complete conceptual framework of suffering that is different or extends beyond our own, but it is a skill that has to be developed like anything else.

This is very wise.
 

ceecee

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I do tend to feel people's pain, & I wouldn't change it. It doesn't really make it harder to live, since it's a different feeling than inner depression. It just makes you feel more serious, less pointless.

Yeah, i wouldn't change it. When i'm in a public place my attentions naturally draw to the person who seems the most fucked-up & miserable, & then I spend all my energy wondering what they're thinking about.

Wait. You are saying that because you feel others pain, your life is less pointless? Then you waste all your energy wondering what they are thinking?
 
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