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  1. #21
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Ha! True. I have learned a lot about Fi watching non F people using it. It can come off as 'this is what you are SUPPOSED to do, because that's what I know is the right thing to do and to do differently is just morally wrong'.

    Some of my friends tell me I have a 'lecture face' and I lecture people like, "Sigh, this is a pain for me to have to do this, but for your own good, let me tell you how it is". Hahaha. But only 2 friends have told me this. My INTP friend said she's seen me use this face (on said 2 friends), but never on her.
    Curious. I thought Fe users were the ones usually characterized as being moralistic and nagging and "tut-tut-ty"...
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

  2. #22
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i think you are right about the axis. though, the way i experience it, Ne is less about spreading news/advocating (that would be Te, perhaps) and more about being painfully aware of interconnection. it just doesn't make sense from a NeFi point of view to sit around and let the world crumble, because you know it's affecting everyone. hurting the world soul, as orobas beautifully put it.
    Yeah, I have been hearing this interconnectedness around here from a lot of ENFP's lately. It kind of reminds me of what Dostoevsky wrote in "The Brother's Karamazov":

    There is only one salvation for you: take yourself up, and make yourself responsible for all the sins of men. For indeed it is so, my friend, and the moment you make yourself sincerely responsible for everything and everyone, you will see at once that it is really so, that it is you who are guilty on behalf of all and for all. Whereas by shifting your own laziness and powerlessness onto others, you will end by sharing in Satan's pride and murmuring against God.
    I guess with their outer, holistic focus of Ne, combined with Fi would do that for sure. A lot of ENFP's remind of the natives in Avatar, because they seem so intimately connected and immersed with all the vibrations of the universe. You guys are so gosh-darned engaged and engaging!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    I guess with their outer, holistic focus of Ne, combined with Fi would do that for sure. A lot of ENFP's remind of the natives in Avatar, because they seem so intimately connected and immersed with all the vibrations of the universe. You guys are so gosh-darned engaged and engaging!
    That's not how I view ENFPs. That sounds like it's more of an NFJ thing (Ni idealism instead of Fi idealism).

    It also sounds like Te is doing the talking, not Fi. Fi might be doing the driving, though.
    Thinkist: not optimist nor pessimist. I am primarily competent in the enneagram.
    SX 9w1, SP 5w6, SP 3w4 | Split with the first two
    Ti-Se-Si-Ni-Te-Fi-Ne-Fe. I'm always questioning this, particularly the Si.
    Big 5/Global5/SLOAN: RCUEX

  4. #24
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thinkist View Post
    That's not how I view ENFPs. That sounds like it's more of an NFJ thing (Ni idealism instead of Fi idealism).

    It also sounds like Te is doing the talking, not Fi. Fi might be doing the driving, though.
    Ahhhhhh this is interesting.... would would "Fi" talking look like? How can I adjust so I am not speaking to them with my Te...

  5. #25
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    Fi is usually talking through Te and making an appearance that much resembles Fe, Kinda like Ti through Fe can resemble Te somewhat. Otherwise, a Ji function turned outward just appears weird or haywire.
    Thinkist: not optimist nor pessimist. I am primarily competent in the enneagram.
    SX 9w1, SP 5w6, SP 3w4 | Split with the first two
    Ti-Se-Si-Ni-Te-Fi-Ne-Fe. I'm always questioning this, particularly the Si.
    Big 5/Global5/SLOAN: RCUEX

  6. #26
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Ahhhhhh this is interesting.... would would "Fi" talking look like? How can I adjust so I am not speaking to them with my Te...
    Quote Originally Posted by Thinkist View Post
    Fi is usually talking through Te and making an appearance that much resembles Fe, Kinda like Ti through Fe can resemble Te somewhat. Otherwise, a Ji function turned outward just appears weird or haywire.
    I would suggest that Fi speaking through Te will first point out pain or hurt, then dictate action. "That was really not a very nice thing to do and it hurt her-you need to not do that action again". Perhaps Fe speaks more in terms of "You should really not feel that way about things" which prompts an internal Ti adjustment to the way the person was thinking about the problem, thus resulting in changed actions.

    I do know that Fe "lectures" seem incomprehensible to me-I recognize the bad feelings they evoke, the guilt, but they never then tell me what to do to fix the situation (Te), instead leaving me hanging, condemned as "bad". Whan I ask my entp friend she said "shouldnt it be obvious what to do? Dont do that (insert tiny Ti detail) thing that after 47 steps led to the issue." I have also been told I needed to think differently about a situation...hahaha, I am at a loss mostly as I dont know what this means exactly.

  7. #27
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Yeah, I have been hearing this interconnectedness around here from a lot of ENFP's lately. It kind of reminds me of what Dostoevsky wrote in "The Brother's Karamazov":

    There is only one salvation for you: take yourself up, and make yourself responsible for all the sins of men. For indeed it is so, my friend, and the moment you make yourself sincerely responsible for everything and everyone, you will see at once that it is really so, that it is you who are guilty on behalf of all and for all. Whereas by shifting your own laziness and powerlessness onto others, you will end by sharing in Satan's pride and murmuring against God.

    I guess with their outer, holistic focus of Ne, combined with Fi would do that for sure. A lot of ENFP's remind of the natives in Avatar, because they seem so intimately connected and immersed with all the vibrations of the universe. You guys are so gosh-darned engaged and engaging!
    God-that quote was so accurate. I have spent a great deal of my life wracked with terrible guilt. I cant find a reason why or what causes it-just that I never quite do enough or help enough or provide for enough. It weighs upon me at times and can actually lead to a great deal of depression. I can "feel" the pain of the world-and I just cover my eyes as nothing I ever do can fix it. It is just too big.

    Sometimes I wonder if enfps were evolved to work within a small group -our little monkey troop of about 150. When we saw others hurting, we cannot ignore it and help those in the most need first, regardless of history, past or family relation, thn we can feel at peace internally. We get them past thier immediate pain and then we help the next person. However when blasdted by the constant pain and hurt of billions, who do you help first, how can you help them, what can you really do...It is like a constant white noise in my mind, pressing on my emotions, to be honest at times, it even blocks my from focusing on my close family relationships and interactions-how can I love them selfishly, when so many others are without love? When I do find ways to give, that momentary peace is almost euphoric.

    I think perhaps this is why enfps may be a bit more emotionally unstable that other types-we cant tune that constant roar of the other out, we come out of the womb, raw and exposed emotionally to all of the intensity and hurt around us and reflect and absorb that noise. So as we grow up we develop all types of odd protective mechanims in our personalities to try and find some sense of peace, some safe protected place away from the chaos.

    And I admit that in my darker moments to being angry, resentful, and frustrated that I am designed this way-forced to bear all of the misery and hurt that I cant do anything about, when I learn that others dont feel this-I envy them so much at times. Then to find-in spite of my feeling all of their pain and hurt-that others judge me as weird or emotionally volatile and condemn me for that or call me rude for trying to protect yself from this chaos via Te?? It evokes a great sadness and hoelessness, even unfairness. I never asked to be this way, it is just what I am.

    Yikes, haha, sorry, end rant! (wow, that was a bit of a roll...)

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I would suggest that Fi speaking through Te will first point out pain or hurt, then dictate action. "That was really not a very nice thing to do and it hurt her-you need to not do that action again". Perhaps Fe speaks more in terms of "You should really not feel that way about things" which prompts an internal Ti adjustment to the way the person was thinking about the problem, thus resulting in changed actions.

    I do know that Fe "lectures" seem incomprehensible to me-I recognize the bad feelings they evoke, the guilt, but they never then tell me what to do to fix the situation (Te), instead leaving me hanging, condemned as "bad". Whan I ask my entp friend she said "shouldnt it be obvious what to do? Dont do that (insert tiny Ti detail) thing that after 47 steps led to the issue." I have also been told I needed to think differently about a situation...hahaha, I am at a loss mostly as I dont know what this means exactly.
    Indeed Fi-through-Te isn't the same as Fe, as you just demonstrated. It also looks like Fe can clash with Fi, as Fe says something like "you should/n't feel this way." and Fi thinks "maybe I shouldn't feel this way... or maybe I should...?" A similar scenario can be constructed with Te and Ti, Te wanting a structure or process to be well-expressed, not caring about how well-developed it is like Ti. In fact, Ti can, and sometimes does, come to a conclusion other than what Te sets forth. So it's no wonder you're at a loss as an FP/TJ with FJs and TPs who think and feel differently than you, and thus can leave you somewhat lost and/or frustrated. This is also why I clash with TJs, especially the ESTJ.
    Thinkist: not optimist nor pessimist. I am primarily competent in the enneagram.
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    Ti-Se-Si-Ni-Te-Fi-Ne-Fe. I'm always questioning this, particularly the Si.
    Big 5/Global5/SLOAN: RCUEX

  9. #29
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I think perhaps this is why enfps may be a bit more emotionally unstable that other types-we cant tune that constant roar of the other out, we come out of the womb, raw and exposed emotionally to all of the intensity and hurt around us and reflect and absorb that noise. So as we grow up we develop all types of odd protective mechanims in our personalities to try and find some sense of peace, some safe protected place away from the chaos.

    And I admit that in my darker moments to being angry, resentful, and frustrated that I am designed this way-forced to bear all of the misery and hurt that I cant do anything about, when I learn that others dont feel this-I envy them so much at times. Then to find-in spite of my feeling all of their pain and hurt-that others judge me as weird or emotionally volatile and condemn me for that or call me rude for trying to protect yself from this chaos via Te?? It evokes a great sadness and hoelessness, even unfairness. I never asked to be this way, it is just what I am.
    Yet again you invade my mind.

  10. #30
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    I'm kinda with OA on this one. Wut?
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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