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  1. #11
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    It's not possible to spoon-feed love down someone's throat. All multiple vectors require attention, besides whichever baggage she carries, your own requires attention, too, as your wants will be stemming out of it, and if rooted in an unhealthy place e.g. out of fear of loss, that won't be sufficient for building anything and will be picked-up on. The balance must first exist within.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  2. #12
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    To respond to the OP... focus on the positive and show that you are committed to making things right. It's not just what you say to her that will make a difference, but what you do that will have deep meaning. If you leave her with empty promises or commitments, you will lose her trust. Take her seriously, and treat her with respect. If you say that you will do A for her, then do A for her. Words of affirmation work in the moment, but in the long-term your actions are what will take hold.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  3. #13
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenian View Post
    Have you ever been in a relationship where the SO projects insecurities no matter what? I mean, if it's not one thing, it's another used to blame. Where it becomes a seemingly random rant of accusations..and if one doesn't turn out to stick to the accused, another and another until some hurt is known and can be used as ammo? Each accusation that turns out wrong is duly acknowledged as meritless by the accuser but persistence ensues until some imperfection is identified, then Wham! You are busted!!

    Why would someone do this?

    Sorry for the rant.
    Hehehehe!

    People do this because if you don't have a flaw it scares them, and they cant relax. They just KNOW everyone is flawed, they are going to let their guard down, and you are going to hurt them in a way you couldn't have predicted. But they can, if they catch it first.

    Sometimes people are just harmful, even if they aren't aware it would really hurt them. Because of this it is hard to believe someone who says they are always there for them, if they aren't honest and smart enough to know, that is actually impossible.

    Best thing you can do, is help your lady to understand that it is okay to be okay! And that all the wonderful experiences you have together will more than compensate for the times you may or may not screw up. Tell her you love her, and that through it all, you never have the intention to deceive or harm her. Even if it happens, its never on purpose, and as long as you guys can sit down and talk about it, she will always see that while you may have messed up it was not out of spite. That you will always be honest with each other, and you are open enough to tell her if something were bothering you to the point it changed your intentions toward her.

    Then tell her that is all you can possibly do, and that it is ultimately up to her whether she can accept that or not.



    *That's how the playas do it! :p

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Hehehehe!

    People do this because if you don't have a flaw it scares them, and they cant relax. They just KNOW everyone is flawed, they are going to let their guard down, and you are going to hurt them in a way you couldn't have predicted. But they can, if they catch it first.

    Best thing you can do is help your lady to understand that it is okay to be okay! And that all the wonderful experiences you have together will more than compensate for the times you may or may not screw up. Tell her you love her, and that through it all, you never have the intention to deceive or harm her.

    Then tell her that is all you can possibly do, and that it is ultimately up to her whether she can accept that or not.



    *That's how the playas do it! :p

    Ohh! Thanks!!!

  5. #15
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenian View Post
    Have you ever been in a relationship where the SO projects insecurities no matter what? I mean, if it's not one thing, it's another used to blame. Where it becomes a seemingly random rant of accusations..and if one doesn't turn out to stick to the accused, another and another until some hurt is known and can be used as ammo? Each accusation that turns out wrong is duly acknowledged as meritless by the accuser but persistence ensues until some imperfection is identified, then Wham! You are busted!!

    Why would someone do this?

    Sorry for the rant.
    If a person's perceptions are shifting from reality, then they need more help than a relationship can provide. She might need counseling and an additional support system. She may not have the emotional foundation for a relationship just yet. The issue I mentioned about emotional scars being permanent requires that the person does learn how to work around them.

    The reason people keep seeing rejection where it is not occurring is because they experienced enough rejection in the past that it is imprinted upon them. They project past experiences onto the present as a way to be prepared for when the certain rejection comes. It is a self defensive mechanism based on the assumption that rejection is a certainty and so you have to be watchful and ready for it. It can get bad enough that it becomes sabotage in which the person destroys any relationships they have because they only know how to function with rejection. They don't have the toolkit to deal with love and trust. People extremely scarred either seek out rejection based (even abusive) relationship or they impose the assumption of those dynamics onto potentially healthy relationships.

    I don't think this is a reason to reject or punish someone who faces these scars, but to have compassion. This might mean giving them time before they have to deal with the emotional complexities of a romantic relationship. It certainly means helping them have a support system which I would say includes professional counseling, and access to reliable friends and family outside the romantic relationship. These people will be a sounding board to help re-establish a clear sense of reality and to re-balance the emotional confusions.

    As a word of compassion for people with these issues - realize that childhood abuses and rejections go deeply into the framework of a person's mind, and it is no simple task to overcome these fear-based defense mechanisms. Extended exposure to anxiety and fear produces higher levels of cortisol in the system which can damage the amygdala which regulates fear responses. This is to say to too much fear and anxiety can damage the hardware of the brain so that it experiences more of the same. This can also mean that a professional might recommend some medications to level out the anxiety problems to keep any further damage from occurring as a result. There are also negative mental feed-back loops for rejection and anxiety that need to be broken which a professional counselor could help with.

    edit: some of my comments are a bit specific and may not apply in any one particular case, but just the general principles of it are what I am trying to convey.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  6. #16
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Be as consistent as possible and dont let her down.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  7. #17
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    This is just something that comes to mind while reading this thread. There seems to be a lot of emphasis in the op’ers posts about just “wanting to love her”. And there’s nothing wrong with that- but there could be a problem if you NEED her to feel loved and secure for your own sake (like, I don’t know, to be able to hurry up and experience the ‘beautiful moments’ of a relationship). This is the kind of thing INFJs tend to pick up on. There’s a difference between being loved for who we are vs. being a warm body in a relationship so someone can feel ‘love’ towards you. If you “just want to love her” for who she is, then keep loving her for who she is and let that soak in for her at her own pace. If it’s consistent, then eventually she’ll feel secure with it. If you need her to feel loved at a faster pace than she’s feeling it- then maybe ask yourself why?

    I just know that too much pressure on her to “feel loved” will make that love seem conditional. [edit to add:] And if the love seems conditional, she's probably going to continue to project insecurities into it.

    Also, +1 to pretty much everything cascadeco and fia said.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  8. #18
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Sometimes ENTPs don't realize that they need to do a bit of reassuring: They know they love the person and wouldn't cheat, aren't going anywhere, etc., but their behavior speaks of flightiness and noncommitment. They often give a player vibe. They come across as charmers, so the INFJ might think that pretty words are pretty easy for them to give, but the actions are making them question the ENTP's sincerity. Be willing to take it slow. Build trust. Make room in your everyday life for her. Include her in the mundane things, as well as the exciting things. Let her know she's different than other women in your life. That she's special. Back off the words and show her by your actions that you plan to include her going forward, that she isn't making a mistake by trusting you with her vulnerable side. And realize that Is often move more slowly than Es.
    Something Witty

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Sometimes ENTPs don't realize that they need to do a bit of reassuring: They know they love the person and wouldn't cheat, aren't going anywhere, etc., but their behavior speaks of flightiness and noncommitment. They often give a player vibe. They come across as charmers, so the INFJ might think that pretty words are pretty easy for them to give, but the actions are making them question the ENTP's sincerity. Be willing to take it slow. Build trust. Make room in your everyday life for her. Include her in the mundane things, as well as the exciting things. Let her know she's different than other women in your life. That she's special. Back off the words and show her by your actions that you plan to include her going forward, that she isn't making a mistake by trusting you with her vulnerable side. And realize that Is often move more slowly than Es.
    +1

    Well said!

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    If a person's perceptions are shifting from reality, then they need more help than a relationship can provide. She might need counseling and an additional support system. She may not have the emotional foundation for a relationship just yet. The issue I mentioned about emotional scars being permanent requires that the person does learn how to work around them.

    The reason people keep seeing rejection where it is not occurring is because they experienced enough rejection in the past that it is imprinted upon them. They project past experiences onto the present as a way to be prepared for when the certain rejection comes. It is a self defensive mechanism based on the assumption that rejection is a certainty and so you have to be watchful and ready for it. It can get bad enough that it becomes sabotage in which the person destroys any relationships they have because they only know how to function with rejection. They don't have the toolkit to deal with love and trust. People extremely scarred either seek out rejection based (even abusive) relationship or they impose the assumption of those dynamics onto potentially healthy relationships.

    I don't think this is a reason to reject or punish someone who faces these scars, but to have compassion. This might mean giving them time before they have to deal with the emotional complexities of a romantic relationship. It certainly means helping them have a support system which I would say includes professional counseling, and access to reliable friends and family outside the romantic relationship. These people will be a sounding board to help re-establish a clear sense of reality and to re-balance the emotional confusions.

    As a word of compassion for people with these issues - realize that childhood abuses and rejections go deeply into the framework of a person's mind, and it is no simple task to overcome these fear-based defense mechanisms. Extended exposure to anxiety and fear produces higher levels of cortisol in the system which can damage the amygdala which regulates fear responses. This is to say to too much fear and anxiety can damage the hardware of the brain so that it experiences more of the same. This can also mean that a professional might recommend some medications to level out the anxiety problems to keep any further damage from occurring as a result. There are also negative mental feed-back loops for rejection and anxiety that need to be broken which a professional counselor could help with.

    edit: some of my comments are a bit specific and may not apply in any one particular case, but just the general principles of it are what I am trying to convey.
    ^THIS IS AWESOME!!!!^

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