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  1. #131
    Junior Member janea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I'm sorry you're hurting so much about this. But I feel like you are still incredibly emotionally invested to her, so I am not sensing that you are ok with a 'new' sort of relationship that wouldn't be of the same sort that you had previously. You keep referring to the intensity of the connection, but the reality is that if she were to bring you back into her life, in whatever capacity, it would be nowhere near the same sort of relationship, or connection, that you had with her previously. It would be so utterly different - and closed-off in many ways - because since you two would not be in the same sort of relationship anymore, you basically wouldn't have access to many/most levels of who she is, by virtue of the emotional connecton being cut. I really don't think she'd even allow it to 'go there' ever again, so it would be a bit of a stale relationship compared to how it once was. Is that what you would want? Is that the sort of relationship she would want?

    Your comment on your offering a 'certain kind of healing' makes me think this is part of why she doesn't think any sort of relationship would be possible - because that level of closeness... to offer healing... has a strong emotional component tied to it. And I think that sort of healing is the sort that an INFJ (well, speaking for myself at least) would lean on their partner for, and only their partner (or possibly their best friend) -- and if she's in a current relationship, I'm guessing she'd be getting her healing from that person.

    Sorry again if this sucks to hear. Also too it greatly complicates things that it's a romantic relationship you're talking of; in many cases friends-post-romance doesn't work for a variety of reasons.

    Does that make sense?
    What you said does make a lot of sense. I guess what I didn't make clear however is that I have no desire myself or expectation for things to go back to the way they were in terms of how our relationship was in the past. I too would need things to be very different if we ever did attempt to have a relationship again. When I refer to the deep connection, I'm not referring to the "intense chemistry"...the stuff that created passion and instability between us. I'm referring to the basic fundamental compatibility that we shared, and that is something I believe we will always share!

    It's that sense of comfort and that feeling that you can totally be yourself around someone and feel loved, appreciated, and understood with that person...and that feeling being mutual. As odd as it may seem given the circumstances, that is actually something that despite the "doorslam", still exists between us. We went through a lot together and she did shut me out, but she has also acknowledged the spiritual connectedness that we still share even now. In fact one of our last conversations recently she mentioned how she feels like she will always know my spirit and my sincere intentions which is why she feels comfortable still talking to me.

    However, the vulnerability that it brings up for her causes her to retreat and pull away from me again. So, we've been doing this back & forth thing for a while. Which I know is due to the lack of trust. But I can't help but wonder if it were theoretically possible to regain her trust over time, whether she might be able to be vulnerable with me again. And if so, then I do believe we could have a relationship again. It would be a different kind of relationship in terms of how we resolve conflicts and handle issues, but there would be the same basic fundamental compatibility which drew us together in the first place and gave us that sense of comfort and connectedness.

    Maybe that's just me being hopeful....but I think each situation is different and maybe it's incredibly rare and unlikely, but I think maybe there are some cases out there where reconciliation is possible for an INFJ after a doorslam. But I dunno, maybe I'm wrong.....

    Edit: Now that I think about, I suppose that based on what I've read from other INFJs, this back & forth thing where she opens up and then retreats again may not necessarily be her feeling vulnerable and shutting down again due to the lack of trust. Perhaps it's just that she senses me wanting her to open up more and rather than give me any "false hope", she wants to do what's best for me to help me let go & move on since she's already moved on...so, she retreats for my sake. Maybe she doesn't feel vulnerable at all! Maybe it's not even about trusting me at this point. She's just done with me and she doesn't want me to hang on so, she pulls away to "help" me move on. That would be typical a INFJ thing I think. So, yeah.... I guess I probably am wrong. :-/ God this sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Edit: Or maybe it's a little bit of both?!?

  2. #132
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janea View Post
    What you said does make a lot of sense. I guess what I didn't make clear however is that I have no desire myself or expectation for things to go back to the way they were in terms of how our relationship was in the past. I too would need things to be very different if we ever did attempt to have a relationship again. When I refer to the deep connection, I'm not referring to the "intense chemistry"...the stuff that created passion and instability between us. I'm referring to the basic fundamental compatibility that we shared, and that is something I believe we will always share!

    It's that sense of comfort and that feeling that you can totally be yourself around someone and feel loved, appreciated, and understood with that person...and that feeling being mutual. As odd as it may seem given the circumstances, that is actually something that despite the "doorslam", still exists between us. We went through a lot together and she did shut me out, but she has also acknowledged the spiritual connectedness that we still share even now. In fact one of our last conversations recently she mentioned how she feels like she will always know my spirit and my sincere intentions which is why she feels comfortable still talking to me.

    ........However, the vulnerability that it brings up for her causes her to retreat and pull away from me again. So, we've been doing this back & forth thing for a while. Which I know is due to the lack of trust.
    Just so that *I* am clear, the 'connection' I was referring to wasn't purely chemistry/romantic. For me, the act of talking about deep/soul stuff - and getting to that comfort level - only happens with those closest to me, and that means I become emotionally connected. If I'm not emotionally connected, or don't desire that level of connection anymore, I in fact won't talk about that stuff - i.e. the 'retreat' you refer to. So to the bolded, I would be careful not to assume it's due to lack of trust -- it could very well be because she does not want the relationship to 'go there' once again and she doesn't want that sort of emotional& mental intimacy any longer. Back to my first post.. she's moved on and redefined the nature of your guys' relationship.

    But, as you say, things can be situational/individual. And technically, since you guys are still conversing, this isn't really a Doorslam. This is probably similar to a lot of breakups (not to discount the specialness of yours by any means), where post-breakup, it takes a while to determine whether or not a friendship will work or is even possible. For some people, it's possible, eventually, to re-create something or other, and for others, it's not and that's discovered over time, or they simply don't want to interact at all anymore with the other person and let go completely.

    In any event - good luck.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  3. #133
    Junior Member janea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I would be careful not to assume it's due to lack of trust -- it could very well be because she does not want the relationship to 'go there' once again and she doesn't want that sort of emotional& mental intimacy any longer.
    I think you're right about it not necessarily being a trust issue but that she just doesn't want the relationship to "go there" again. I sense that very much. I'm curious about your feeling that it's not a real doorslam though then. If it's not a true doorslam, does that mean that that there is a possibility of her opening up more over time?

  4. #134
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janea View Post
    I think you're right about it not necessarily being a trust issue but that she just doesn't want the relationship to "go there" again. I sense that very much. I'm curious about your feeling that it's not a real doorslam though then. If it's not a true doorslam, does that mean that that there is a possibility of her opening up more over time?
    Honestly I don't even know anymore what a doorslam is. I thought in this thread it constituted ceasing communication pretty much all together -- that's what it would be for me. Move on completely, past is the past, look ahead. Basically my first post in this thread. Other people in this thread have said the total lack of communication can be more temporary. I think we're all talking about different versions/iterations of the same concept.

    You've elaborated since then that you're still communicating about various things, so I really don't know.

    Honestly, from my perspective, my first post still holds -- once I move on, I move on. I don't 'go there' again. I have no interest in doing it. It doesn't mean I think badly of the person, I just... have moved on. If I saw them again, I'd be pleasant, but I wouldn't try to rekindle anything. They're just.. not someone I'm focusing on anymore in my life. I don't know how else to word it.

    But I really don't know your friend, so I can't say what she'd do - - whether or not she might open up more in the future or not.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  5. #135
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Hi janea. I am glad to see that you have returned. And thank you for answering my question with regards to 'doorslam' vs 'break-up'. fwiw - I still believe that what you have experienced is a 'break-up'.

    I just popped in here for a quick minute...and I have been doing my best to go through everything you have said...and while I don't have time to explain it now (heck, with the way my brain has been lately I don't know if I will be able to explain it later)...but I 'captured' a few quotes from what you have written...that for some reason...I don't know...maybe rub me the wrong way. It is embarrassing because like I said...I don't feel like I am capable of explaining it...so I am counting on you to try and see if you can see what I see (wtf?)...but there does seem to be this one-sided tone coming through. Please don't think that I think you are being selfish or anything. Having actually been doorslammed I can kinda understand some of the 'hopefulness' you feel. But again...the way you are presenting your ideas leaves me with this 'unfortunate' feeling like you are focusing more on what will benefit you (again...forgive me for saying that). Do you see anything in these quotes???

    Knowing that she's likely never going to open up to me again and feeling betrayed by her in that way, I'm starting to feel like the only thing I can do for my own well-being is doorslam her and shut her out of my life completely.
    And being a borderline INFJ, I know how hard it can be to find people that I really connect with on a deep level and who I feel really "get" me in a way that I need to feel understood and appreciated.
    Again, me doing what I'm doing is much more about me than about her, but at the same time, a part of it still is based in that she had such an impact on me and was such a catalyst for change in my life, I can't help but wonder how that just simply doesn't play any sort of factor in her feelings towards me.
    What I can't understand is never being open to the possibility of a new relationship developing, especially if that person had matured and grown and could offer a certain kind of healing that can really only come from that person. Does that make sense?
    But I can't help but wonder if it were theoretically possible to regain her trust over time, whether she might be able to be vulnerable with me again. And if so, then I do believe we could have a relationship again.
    Please don't think that I am denying that you have a very special connection with this person...but maybe just meditate on the whole 'me' thing for a moment. Also...if you are so spiritually connected...and this individual is still talking to you...well...have you ever asked her about all of this directly?? Like, there is no way any of us can answer for her. A lot of people come to these 'doorslam' threads because their 'doorslammer' has cut off all communication...and they are trying to make sense of it all. But if you are still in communication with your INFJ...I really think you should be very open and honest with her about how you feel...what you are hoping for.

    Damn...yet another scrambley message. I hope you can understand janea.

  6. #136
    Junior Member janea's Avatar
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    Hi StarryKnights,

    When you pull those statements together and read them out of context, I can see how it would come across as me sounding "selfish" as you put it. Like you said, it's a very one-sided thing. I don't have her feedback to share with you because the most I get from her is a very direct "the best thing for you to do is move on" sort of response whenever I do attempt to bring up these things with her. She's not open to discussing it and like I said, she's very closed off with me. Even though she still maintains communication to an extent and will talk to me on occasion, she is very "matter of fact" and I can tell there is no emotional attachment whatsoever. She really has moved on and I know that. So, I don't want to press the matter. I want to respect her, give her space, time, and just let her be. So, to answer your question, yes I have asked her about all this directly and all I get is a simple "let go, move on" speech. Which is why I feel it's more of a doorslam because she cut me out of her heart, her head, her future, everything. Sure, she still talks to me because she's a nice person and doesn't want to hurt me but that doesn't mean it's not a doorslam. Believe me, I know what it means to doorslam somebody and I am very certain I am on the receiving end of it right now. I'm not sure you really understand on the same level, maybe because of not being INFJ.... I don't know.

    Please remember too that this IS about ME in the sense that I got doorslammed by the person I committed to spending the rest of my life with and I came here for some basic feedback about how to cope with the feelings and with the situation so that maybe I can move on or at least understand her side of things a little better so that I can heal because while she needs healing and I recognize that, what I really need right now is healing too. So, maybe I'm being selfish but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing right now because I need to think of my well-being and I need to attend to my wounds as the result of having been doorslammed.

    Again, I see what you're saying but I think maybe without understanding what it's really like to be an INFJ and how INFJs by nature can be very selfish when it comes to healing and protecting themselves after being hurt and figuring out how to move on after a relationship, it may be difficult to understand how we rationalize that selfishness. I don't think it's all that odd for me to be talking about how I feel like doorslamming her and what I want and what I need. I hope this is coming across the way I mean it to. :-/

    I didn't actually come here to figure out how to get my INFJ ex-gf back.... I came here in the hopes of finding some understanding and healing and maybe some guidance on whether I should let go and if so, how to do that. I can see how that wasn't really clear in my original post. My original post sounds like I'm desperately trying to find some sort of morsel of hope... and honestly, maybe the moment I wrote that I was in a way....but really what my heart truly needs right now is healing, peace, and understanding. I don't think that's selfish in a bad way. We all have to take care of ourselves.

  7. #137
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janea View Post
    I don't have her feedback to share with you because the most I get from her is a very direct "the best thing for you to do is move on" sort of response whenever I do attempt to bring up these things with her. She's not open to discussing it and like I said, she's very closed off with me. Even though she still maintains communication to an extent and will talk to me on occasion, she is very "matter of fact" and I can tell there is no emotional attachment whatsoever. She really has moved on and I know that. So, I don't want to press the matter. I want to respect her, give her space, time, and just let her be.
    Ok, if that is her response, and she's being very matter-of-fact and such, she is definitely as I described in my first post. And as you say, because she's nice/pleasant, she will talk to you if you call her/contact her, but she's clearly keeping it very defined and not going beyond niceties.

    For your own healing. It will be hard, but can you force yourself to cease contacting her for several months, so that you are able to learn to be on your own again and so that you can learn how to have a life minus her? I feel like that's probably one of the only ways to heal at this point -- to just stop contact completely so that you can emotionally let go over time. As long as you keep contacting her and keep that interaction going, then you won't be able to heal, imo. And if she's the one who is contacting you now and again, then you have every right to just tell her that you can't talk to her any more because it affects you too much and you need to move on.

    Sorry again.

    Edit: As for her ability to just completely cut you out and move on, I know with at least my infj friend and myself, once we have worked through our own emotions, and resolved things, and reached a point in our own heads where we no longer see the possibility, and the emotions are no longer consuming us as a result, then it's like something snaps in us and we have then realligned our world to the 'new world' - minus the person. It may take a while internally to reach closure, but once we do, we do. It's possible that your infj friend was doing half of this while still in the relationship, towards the end of it... and then once out, she did the remainder (or whatever) and now, like I said in the first post, she's just looking ahead, and as you say, has no more emotional attachments and may no longer have the same relationship needs anymore either. To be clear... I'm pretty much talking about romantic breakups at this point. From what I know of ISFJ's, a key difference is that I think it can be much harder for ISFJ's to let go of past associations. I know you say you are close to INFJ, and I don't not believe you, but it might not hurt either to post in the SJ section to see if there are any other ISFJ's who would be able to help share how they have healed from relationship hurts such as what you describe. I can tell you for myself, I am one who tends to need to cut things off 100% completely to remove the emotional aspect, at least in romantic relationships, and for me to move on. I don't know if it would be the same for you, but I thought I would throw it out there.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  8. #138
    Junior Member janea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    From what I know of ISFJ's, a key difference is that I think it can be much harder for ISFJ's to let go of past associations. I know you say you are close to INFJ, and I don't not believe you, but it might not hurt either to post in the SJ section to see if there are any other ISFJ's who would be able to help share how they have healed from relationship hurts such as what you describe.
    You're right and that's really great advice. I had literally a 6 hour conversation about all of this with my closest INFJ friend last night (whom I had doorslammed but let back in after 15 years....which I talk about below) and she merely confirmed everything you say and everything I've read on here and on other forums about the whole doorslam thing. I feel like it has in a way helped me to start moving towards that next level of letting go because I'm finally seeing how it is for her mentally and emotionally and how that's different from what I thought it was like for her, prior to gaining this new understanding.

    At the same time, and I don't mean to beat a dead horse with all of this but, my experiences of using the doorslam technique with people, I have always remained at least a little tiny bit open to the possibility of a future relationship with a few of them. Maybe that's the S in me that struggles to let go of the past. Maybe I'm just too forgiving. Maybe I just have too much hope that things can change in general. I don't know. But I can honestly say that of all of the people I have doorslammed, while MOST of them I probably would never let back in, there are a few in there....or maybe a couple that I think I would, under certain circumstances.

    Anyway, I'm going on a bit of experience too because as I mentioned earlier in this post, I just actually let someone back "in" recently whom I had doorslammed and cut out of my life entirely almost 15 years ago. And it was a very slow and very gradual process. I mean, it took about 10 years of her consistently making an effort to reach out to me, showing me that she still cared about me and that she was interested in having a relationship with me...that it was worth it to her enough to not give up and remain persistent. Then even when I started to open up over time, it was just a little tiny bit here and there and I did the "push/pull" thing with her quite a bit.... opening up a little then retreating again. It wasn't that I didn't trust her....for the longest time I just didn't see the point in "going back". To me, she was a part of my past, that relationship was a defining part of my past, and I had zero desire to go back there....even talking to her seemed to take me back there and I didn't like the feeling so I would disappear again. But apparently I meant a great deal to her...more than I realized...and she was relentless in her pursuits of seeking out a friendship with me again.

    So, I began examining how this happened. She wasn't pushy or annoying or pressuring me or anything... she let things go at the pace that I allowed it to and didn't try and force anything. She just remained patient and persistent over the course of many many years. I'm not necessarily saying that would be the best thing for me to do in this situation because I do need to heal and I know it's best for me to move on. However, my personal experience as a doorslammer having let someone back in that was gone "forever" in my mind, I'm questioning things more now and am wondering about the possibilities more. Believe me, I NEVER would have realistically thought that I would be close to this friend again. I thought the most we would ever be was acquaintances and I would keep her at arm's length forever. But strangely and unexpectedly, things changed. She's now "in". And I am in awe at her determination and unwillingness to give up. As I mentioned earlier, she is also an INFJ and she has doorslammed many people out of her life.

  9. #139
    Junior Member janea's Avatar
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    I put this list together earlier in thinking about what it took for me let someone back in. Maybe it might help others. Although, I can honestly say I wouldn't recommend it! It's not for the faint of heart. My recommendation, as with most everyone else on here is to let go and move on because the other person certainly has! But who knows, maybe in some rare cases this might actually work for some.

    Also, I should note that the person I let back in was an INFJ, and the only other 2 people that I would consider letting back in are also INFJs. So, I don't know what that means really.... I think it has something to do with the depth of the connection between two INFJs in a relationship and how rare/special it is to feel that connected and understood. But I'm not sure. Anyway, here's what I came up with ....


    In the case where I have let someone back in and in thinking hypothetically about what it would take for me to let someone back in , these are the criteria:

    1) Time to heal...in years....but the longer time goes on & I don't hear from them, the more I "forget" and the less I care to hear from them...the more it really doesn't "matter" to me
    2) They make the effort to initiate contact and reach out to me and show me that they're interested in having a relationship with me... they show me that they care enough about me
    3) They are persistent (without being pushy or annoying) and they are INCREDIBLY patient in slowly and gradually developing a "new" relationship with me...it would be "natural"
    4) They actually change and are no longer the same exact person that I doorslammed (mainly that they've matured and grown....so that we're on the same basic "level")
    5) I'm willing to SEE them as "changed" and give them the benefit of the doubt and not see them as the same old person they were when I doorslammed them
    6) They're willing to see me as the "changed" person that I have become and not expect me to be the same person I was before
    7) We're both able to genuinely relate to each other with ease and talk comfortably without pretense, feeling understood, accepted & sincerely cared about
    8) I cared enough about them in the first place to see them as "worthy" of my time and energy and feel that having a relationship with them is beneficial to BOTH of us in some way
    9) I can see how we would be able to help each other grow in the relationship to help each other reach their potential

  10. #140
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarryKnights View Post
    Please don't think that I think you are being selfish or anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by janea View Post
    Hi StarryKnights,
    When you pull those statements together and read them out of context, I can see how it would come across as me sounding "selfish" as you put it.
    Okay, I admit my previous post was a mess but ^^^ what?

    Perhaps you are right. Perhaps it is the case that I cannot understand as I am not an INFJ. So I’ll step away from this part of the thread now. But I wish you the very best with your healing. Take good care of yourself janea.

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