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  1. #121
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Janea, just want to add that another element of the Doorslam/Breakup is simply the act of Moving On. It doesn't take away necessarily from what the relationship was when you were together, but it means that she has totally moved on. Although this will probably be blunt, she's ok with not having you in her life in that capacity and on that level, and mentally she's 100% adjusted and basically rewritten her life minus you. And if she's now in another relationship, she's probably more further into her 'new' life and putting all of her efforts and attention towards that.

    For myself, when I let go of someone, I've put a lot of thought into it, and probably went through a lot prior to finally letting them go. Once I do, it's a very deliberate decision and I'm ready to look ahead. I honestly don't desire to keep my thoughts in my past or revisit past relationships. So for me, I don't even know that the issue would have anything to do with whether or not I believed the person could change. It's rather that I've in effect wiped the slate clean in my mind and I'm looking forward, building my life looking to the future and to the new people in my life. I no longer have any emotional ties to those people from the past - beyond a recognition that I once had a tie. But that tie is no longer strong and for a myriad of reasons I may not desire or may not even be able to forge the tie, with the same person or in the same way, once again.
    Exactly. Every bit of this is gold.

  2. #122
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Yeah^ (oops! this was responding to Starry), doorslamming really runs the gamut- it can be from an incredibly conflict avoidant person who slams over something ridiculous because they aren't comfortable with talking about the slightest of problems to someone who is incredibly loyal but is truly dealing with more than they can handle from a bona fide selfish asshole. And anyone who's gone the incredibly-loyal-but-can't-take-anymore route and has had to deal with the bona-fide-selfish-asshole is going to be touchy hearing the gripes of anyone who has gotten hurt from the incredibly-conflict-avoidant variety because the arguments all *sound* the same; the bona-fide-selfish-asshole usually knows how to present his/her argument as if the incredibly-loyal person is incredibly-conflict-avoidant. Hearing about how doorslamming is 'incredibly conflict avoidant' becomes absolutely repugnant- to anyone who's gotten hurt going the loyal route- because a strong association of manipulation has developed. And inversely, I'm sure anyone who's gotten hurt by someone too conflict avoidant probably finds the zealous defense of doorslamming repugnant for the same reason.

    I always have a hard time reading doorslam threads/posts seeking advice because you can never really tell how much responsibility an individual takes for how their behavior/reactions affect other people until you've known them for a while. So it's incredibly hard to offer up any advice or insight. The arguments for both sides really sound the same every time, regardless of who's actually been irresponsible and selfish. It's easy to show up and say, "I've been wronged, the other person isn't taking responsibility." (Though I'm personally inclined to suspect anyone who shows up pointing fingers exclusively at other people clearly has issues taking responsibility for anything.)

    edit: I didn't mean to insinuate janea's post reads like "I've been wronged, the other person isn't taking responsibility". In fact, it didn't come off like that at all. I'm just saying, a lot times, that's how these posts sound.
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  3. #123
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    I was hoping janea would return and perhaps she will later. But I think I will, at least, attempt to jot down some of what is coming-up for me when I read her story and hopefully it will help her or someone else.

    The reason I became attached to defining this as a ‘break-up’ as opposed to a doorslam is that I almost…almost…have a sense of envy when I read how things ‘ended’ for her. As strange as it may sound…a part of me thinks… ‘how nice it would be to have an ending that made sense!’ For from where I sit this sounds like a legitimate ending to a relationship. Moreover, while it may not be the ‘new and different beginning’ that she would like…the fact that the communication, however meager, remains open…I feel it is a ‘new and different beginning’ all the same.

    I cannot stress this enough. It is not the ending of my relationship that has troubled me but rather the troubling way in which it ended. I mean, I would be lying if I said that I did not want this person in my life. But because I love this person with every ounce of who I am…I want what is best for him and if what is best for him is a life without me in it…then that becomes what I want as well. What I have struggled with though, for a very long time, is an attachment to having the relationship end on good terms. I actually, on occasion, question if that in itself is selfish on my part. To not be ‘okay’ with having things end in a way that may have worked for him…but not for me. If so…then call me ‘selfishly attached to positive endings’.

    I am the exact same person I was prior to my doorslam. Well, the same minus sleepless nights, anxiousness, the inability to trust my judgment, the inability to communicate like I used to because I always have this strange outstanding feeling like nothing may be what I think it is…

    I feel like janea has a luxury really. To be able to say… ‘I behaved in this way and it lead to the breakdown of my relationship.’ And ‘I still communicate with my ex and am encouraged by the fact she notices improvement in me.’ I feel it is a dangerous thing though to be working on self-improvement for her (yes it was phrased in this ‘for her’ way but I’m too lazy to quote). I think it could be done in honor of her…but self-improvement must be done for you and you alone or it just doesn’t work.

    Anyway…I fully recognize this message is pretty scrambley. That is just how I am these days. But it was so important for me to at least try and make a clear distinction between the ‘break-up’…and a doorslam. I have done well with my past ‘break-ups’. Said my peace…and looked towards a better tomorrow. And come-on, who doesn’t like getting super drunk and writing really bad poetry amiright? (okay maybe that’s just me). But this doorslam thing…wow. Not for the faint of heart I say.

  4. #124
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Oh whoops...I didn't see that Z-Buck had posted. Guess I took too long 'throwin up my GOLD!' (ummm...what?). I will have to return and see what was written because I know I will get something out of it (running out the door). I am looking forward to returning.

  5. #125
    Senior Member Meek's Avatar
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    Enfjs do this as well. They're more expressive before they do so and can be quite scary from the Fe. >_<
    I would rather have an Infj door slam me tbh.

  6. #126
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Yeah^ (oops! this was responding to Starry), doorslamming really runs the gamut- it can be from an incredibly conflict avoidant person who slams over something ridiculous because they aren't comfortable with talking about the slightest of problems to someone who is incredibly loyal but is truly dealing with more than they can handle from a bona fide selfish asshole. And anyone who's gone the incredibly-loyal-but-can't-take-anymore route and has had to deal with the bona-fide-selfish-asshole is going to be touchy hearing the gripes of anyone who has gotten hurt from the incredibly-conflict-avoidant variety because the arguments all *sound* the same; the bona-fide-selfish-asshole usually knows how to present his/her argument as if the incredibly-loyal person is incredibly-conflict-avoidant. Hearing about how doorslamming is 'incredibly conflict avoidant' becomes absolutely repugnant- to anyone who's gotten hurt going the loyal route- because a strong association of manipulation has developed. And inversely, I'm sure anyone who's gotten hurt by someone too conflict avoidant probably finds the zealous defense of doorslamming repugnant for the same reason.

    I always have a hard time reading doorslam threads/posts seeking advice because you can never really tell how much responsibility an individual takes for how their behavior/reactions affect other people until you've known them for a while. So it's incredibly hard to offer up any advice or insight. The arguments for both sides really sound the same every time, regardless of who's actually been irresponsible and selfish. It's easy to show up and say, "I've been wronged, the other person isn't taking responsibility." (Though I'm personally inclined to suspect anyone who shows up pointing fingers exclusively at other people clearly has issues taking responsibility for anything.)

    edit: I didn't mean to insinuate janea's post reads like "I've been wronged, the other person isn't taking responsibility". In fact, it didn't come off like that at all. I'm just saying, a lot times, that's how these posts sound.
    That first paragraph was incredibly enjoyable to read just for how it was written! Still, let it be known that, the message has not been lost to me either. It has been a difficult thing for me at times to come here and speak of my doorslam because I will read posts by the ‘last resort doorslammers’ and my heart truly goes out to them. And in the knowing that the ‘last resort doorslammers’, that may be unaware of the existence of ‘first resort doorslammers’, are reading what I write and perhaps feeling even further confused and insulted (that is seriously the last thing I would want). Actually…it is when I am feeling the way I do now that I want to make it clear that my own personal ‘first resort doorslammer’ is not even remotely a ‘bad’ or ‘manipulative’ human being. Overly self-protective and maybe a little teeny-tiny bit troubled. But in no way shape-or-form a person with ill-intent. I need people who read my words…even in during my down times when I am so frustrated with all of this…to know that.

    These threads are difficult but I, for one, have appreciated them. And I have appreciated the people here who have ‘walked with me’ during this difficult time in my life. I truly thank you.

  7. #127
    Junior Member janea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    I don't want to be discouraging because it may just be the way you've framed your experience... But I also never trust when someone is making huge changes for me. They have to do it for themselves, because they want to. I feel like I can tell when someone is making a change for themselves and that, I do trust. (Regardless though, I think it's great that you've done so much work to be who you want to be).
    I know what you mean....I admit that at first I was doing it more for her than for myself. I would say the motivation was split 80% for her 20% for me. But as time went on and the more I began to accept and realize that our relationship was over, I had moments where my motivation would wane a bit but then I would always come around again to the fact that I really do want to become a healthy, stable person and live up to my potential. So, the motivation at this point has shifted and is about what I want for myself and has very little to do with her. I've come to accept for the most part that she has "doorslammed" me and that there's no going back, and yet I'm still as motivated as ever to keep moving forward with my life. I think she does sense that at this point and maybe over time she'll trust in that more...but I don't know....it seems from what most people say that once trust is gone, for INFJs it's really hard if not impossible to regain trust again.

  8. #128
    Junior Member janea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarryKnights View Post
    janea - I have not had a chance to really sit down and read through all of these posts in a meaningful way (I hope to do that here in an hour or so)...but just out of curiosity...why do you consider this a doorslam as opposed to merely a 'break-up'?

    I was just wondering because I, myself, have been doorslammed...and while my situation seems very different from yours...the individual has not communicated with me at all. You mentioned that you do have communication with this individual...which in all honesty...I would be so grateful for! Again, I hope to come back here soon and really read all that has been written...but just for the bits and pieces I have skimmed...I'm not exactly sure...does this really qualify as a doorslam? Please let me know your thoughts.
    Hi StarryKnights, I'm sorry for the delay in responding. For some reason I stopped receiving email notifications of replies so I just assumed no one was replying to my post. Anyway, as far as your question regarding how I know it's a doorslam vs. a breakup. I can say with a fair amount of certainty that it was a doorslam mainly because it was so abrupt and I basically went from being her entire world to feeling as though I didn't even exist pretty much overnight. Granted, there was a giant blowup between us that was the final straw for her so, there was a clear defining moment where even for me on an intuitive level, I knew it was over. I could feel it in my soul. I felt her shut down and withdraw and from that point on until now she has been a completely different person with me. Even though we still maintain a limited amount of contact, she is very "matter of fact" with me....there is obviously no emotional attachment and when I share my feelings with her, I can tell that she is responding with virtually no emotion. I know her well enough and we were connected to a point where I've always been very hyper-aware of her shutting down on me. She would pull these little mini-doorslams and put up walls with me when we were together and I was acutely sensitive and aware of when she would do it. So, when she did the final doorslam it was extremely painfully obvious to me what was going on but I didn't know anything about the "INFJ Doorslam" at the time. So, it was really hard for me to understand and accept and I was very deeply hurt and affected by it. Keep in mind that I'm an IXFJ so I'm borderline INFJ....I have doorslammed people in my life, including my own mother. So, I understand the process and I understand what it feels like to be the doorslammer. However, it's still very hard to accept being on the receiving end, regardless of how much I understand it. In fact, now that I realize what has happened, I feel myself shutting down on her now. Knowing that she's likely never going to open up to me again and feeling betrayed by her in that way, I'm starting to feel like the only thing I can do for my own well-being is doorslam her and shut her out of my life completely. I really wanted to at the very least maintain some kind of connection or friendship with her....and of course, in my fantasy world I would do pretty much anything for a 2nd chance in a romantic relationship with her. But I also think that at this point, I don't know that I could ever really trust her again to not doorslam me again. So.... anyway, I hope that answered your question. Basically as a borderline INFJ myself and given our deep spiritual connection, I "just know" and I knew instantly, the second it happened!

  9. #129
    Junior Member janea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Janea, just want to add that another element of the Doorslam/Breakup is simply the act of Moving On. It doesn't take away necessarily from what the relationship was when you were together, but it means that she has totally moved on. Although this will probably be blunt, she's ok with not having you in her life in that capacity and on that level, and mentally she's 100% adjusted and basically rewritten her life minus you. And if she's now in another relationship, she's probably more further into her 'new' life and putting all of her efforts and attention towards that.

    For myself, when I let go of someone, I've put a lot of thought into it, and probably went through a lot prior to finally letting them go. Once I do, it's a very deliberate decision and I'm ready to look ahead. I honestly don't desire to keep my thoughts in my past or revisit past relationships. So for me, I don't even know that the issue would have anything to do with whether or not I believed the person could change. It's rather that I've in effect wiped the slate clean in my mind and I'm looking forward, building my life looking to the future and to the new people in my life. I no longer have any emotional ties to those people from the past - beyond a recognition that I once had a tie. But that tie is no longer strong and for a myriad of reasons I may not desire or may not even be able to forge the tie, with the same person or in the same way, once again.
    I appreciate your feedback. It is hard to hear because it resonates so deeply and I have this very strong sense that the way you described things is exactly where she's at. It's hard to hear but at least it helps me gain some perspective and will hopefully help me let go. I just struggle with things given the circumstances. As I mentioned in my initial post, we were each other's first true loves, we had never felt that kind of a deep connection on so many levels with anyone else, ever. And being a borderline INFJ, I know how hard it can be to find people that I really connect with on a deep level and who I feel really "get" me in a way that I need to feel understood and appreciated.

    The fact that we shared that kind of a connection and that fact that I am really making such an effort to improve my life, not just because I care so much about her but because I really do want this for myself, regardless of if we ever even speak again.... I just feel like if I were on her end, even being a doorslamming INFJ myself, I would definitely be VERY hesitant to open the door up again, but I wouldn't be completely closed off too it either. It would take a lot of time, but I would probably gradually open up the door again and give them the opportunity to re-earn my trust.

    Again, me doing what I'm doing is much more about me than about her, but at the same time, a part of it still is based in that she had such an impact on me and was such a catalyst for change in my life, I can't help but wonder how that just simply doesn't play any sort of factor in her feelings towards me. I understand that once you get to a point and you know it's over, you're able to move forward and let that person go completely. But in terms of never letting that person in again, EVER.... that's the part that I struggle with. I can understand completely moving on and letting go. What I can't understand is never being open to the possibility of a new relationship developing, especially if that person had matured and grown and could offer a certain kind of healing that can really only come from that person. Does that make sense?

  10. #130
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    I'm sorry you're hurting so much about this. But I feel like you are still incredibly emotionally invested to her, so I am not sensing that you are ok with a 'new' sort of relationship that wouldn't be of the same sort that you had previously. You keep referring to the intensity of the connection, but the reality is that if she were to bring you back into her life, in whatever capacity, it would be nowhere near the same sort of relationship, or connection, that you had with her previously. It would be so utterly different - and closed-off in many ways - because since you two would not be in the same sort of relationship anymore, you basically wouldn't have access to many/most levels of who she is, by virtue of the emotional connecton being cut. I really don't think she'd even allow it to 'go there' ever again, so it would be a bit of a stale relationship compared to how it once was. Is that what you would want? Is that the sort of relationship she would want?

    Your comment on your offering a 'certain kind of healing' makes me think this is part of why she doesn't think any sort of relationship would be possible - because that level of closeness... to offer healing... has a strong emotional component tied to it. And I think that sort of healing is the sort that an INFJ (well, speaking for myself at least) would lean on their partner for, and only their partner (or possibly their best friend) -- and if she's in a current relationship, I'm guessing she'd be getting her healing from that person.

    Sorry again if this sucks to hear. Also too it greatly complicates things that it's a romantic relationship you're talking of; in many cases friends-post-romance doesn't work for a variety of reasons.

    Does that make sense?
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