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  1. #111
    Junior Member janea's Avatar
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    Thank you, I appreciate your feedback. I understand what you're saying and although it's difficult to hear, I can accept it. I'm at a point where I'm pretty convinced that she'd never open up to me again and am really doing my best to try and let go but there's still a part of me that wants to hang on just in case she ever does come back around. This experience has been really hard and I do understand how hurtful my behavior was....being an ISFJ/INFJ myself, I get it. And that's why I'm pretty sure she's not going to open up to me again. I don't feel like I'm on here seeking advice on how to win her over again. I don't think it's possible! If she ever opens up to me again it will be because she wants to, not because of anything I do to win her over. I guess I just wanted some INFJ's opinions on whether or not they personally would consider opening up again given the circumstances.... open up on their own I mean....not as a result of coercion or convincing from the other person.

    I definitely know what you mean in terms of turning habits like being abusive being impossible without LOTS of practice and being under stress. When I say I have grown, I don't mean that I just read some books and now I'm healed...I mean I've been putting a lot of time and work into practicing under stress how to handle things in healthier and more constructive ways. So, I wouldn't expect her to open up to me so that I could "practice" with her... I know that I would have to have already practiced enough to have really developed healthier habits before she would even consider opening up to me again, if it's even a possibility.

    Also, I just want to clarify that I wasn't "verbally abusive"...when I talk about being emotionally abusive, I am referring to things like me having anger outbursts, yelling, and shutting down emotionally. I didn't call her names or put her down or try to hurt her verbally. I am certainly not trying to make light of how I treated her or of my behavior. I know how hurtful my behavior was to her because I can empathize having grown up with an emotionally abusive mother! But I do believe there is a difference between the two that should be clarified because I was not "mean" or intentionally hurtful to her. However, I had a difficult time controlling my emotions and reacted by behaving in ways that were hurtful to her.

    It may be helpful to mention as well that I am female. Not that me being male would change the situation...but I have a tendency to believe that when it comes to emotions, a relationship between two females is very different than one between a man and a woman, typically.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    If someone became verbally abusive under stress- no, I would not open the door up again, at least not on the level of getting back into a relationship. There’s really no way of knowing major improvements have happened until a tremendous amount of stress comes along and tests you. And I- for one- would not be willing to be the one who was around for those tests.



    Yeah, the more intense a connection is when it goes south- the less chance you’ll have at ever being let back in again.



    I can tell you that if someone got verbally abusive with me to the point of getting doorslammed, and they were seeking advice on how to win me over again- that would tell me that they didn’t give enough weight to how hurtful their behavior was. It’s much easier to envision ‘on new terms’ than it is to actually put them in practice. In fact, it’s practically impossible to turn habits- like getting verbally abusive under stress- around by realizing you do them; it takes lots and lots of practice of being under stress and choosing a different way of dealing with it before the urge to become verbally abusive *actually* goes away. Based on what you’ve written, I’d say the best thing to do is let her go. Apologize and own up for the things you need to apologize and own up for- but don’t expect anything for it. If you’re expecting to get something out of it, then you’re doing it for the wrong reason.
    Couldn't agree more. I had to make the difficult decision to leave someone who, when under stress, resorted to manipulation to the point of verbal cruelty and trust was forever broken with me. Despite a person's best intentions, people don't change, by and large. They can change, as Z Buck says, but it takes a lot of honest introspection and practice.

    Edited: When I say verbally cruel, I don't mean yelling or calling names or anythng like that. It was off-hand critical remarks that were meant to try and sway me. This person could be antagonistic. I don't think he heard these remarks as critical.
    Last edited by Lauren; 06-15-2011 at 09:11 AM.

  3. #113
    Junior Member janea's Avatar
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    I definitely get what you're saying, but I don't buy this "people don't change" business. Yes, I certainly agree that MOST people don't change. It is rare for people to change. It's rare, but it does happen on occasion! Perhaps in special circumstances. This woman is the love of my life and I feel that I am willing to do whatever work is necessary to be a good partner for her. As far as the change required for that sort of thing, it usually takes years of therapy and LOTS of hard work and practice, but that's what I'm referring to here.... years of therapy, lots of hard work and practice...that's what I have done, am doing, and am going to continue doing. So, under those circumstances, I just feel like it's a different kind of situation.....

  4. #114
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I agree with you, janea- people can change. I don't know that the frequency with which people make real, lasting changes would be enough for me to consider reversing a doorslam, though. Also consider that she may no longer consider you the love of her life... she probably had to excise you from her heart in order to doorslam. I don't think that, if I were her, that I could reopen a wound like that.

  5. #115
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janea View Post
    Also, I just want to clarify that I wasn't "verbally abusive"...when I talk about being emotionally abusive, I am referring to things like me having anger outbursts, yelling, and shutting down emotionally. I didn't call her names or put her down or try to hurt her verbally. I am certainly not trying to make light of how I treated her or of my behavior. I know how hurtful my behavior was to her because I can empathize having grown up with an emotionally abusive mother! But I do believe there is a difference between the two that should be clarified because I was not "mean" or intentionally hurtful to her. However, I had a difficult time controlling my emotions and reacted by behaving in ways that were hurtful to her.
    This does make a little difference, but if you did it to the point where you got doorslammed then it’s still not likely you’ll have her trust anytime soon. Conflicts tend to build up in us and by the time we doorslam- it’s because so much of it has stockpiled in our heads we can’t stand it anymore. And it generally leaves us with a mess of emo schrapnel which takes years to clean out of our psyche. Even when we want to forgive someone and let go of stuff, it just isn’t a conscious decision- we just have to wait and see and it usually takes an embarrassingly long time. It’s something INFJs specifically have gone on tangents about here.

    It’s always hard to answer these kinds of posts because there’s no way of knowing- from one post- what’s actually going on or how reasonable the doorslam was. But regardless of whether it was reasonable- it’s pretty consistently true that people doorslam because they can’t handle anymore. If it isn't as bad as the initial post sounds (and there was no name calling or manipulating) then there's a chance, but I wouldn't count on it. The best bet is to just move on- and learn from it/not do it again.


    [sorry, edited a bit here and there]
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  6. #116
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    I am sorry to hear what you are going through, janea. :/ I'm INFJ and I agree with the sentiments expressed about doorslamming being done with great finality. I think about it for a very long time before I do it and it's always painful. I never go back on it. It was tough to do in the first place and I don't want to experience that kind of pain again.

    I think INFJs have a strong sense for when something won't work for them. I won't go back once I've decided it won't work. I don't want to be discouraging because it may just be the way you've framed your experience... But I also never trust when someone is making huge changes for me. They have to do it for themselves, because they want to. I feel like I can tell when someone is making a change for themselves and that, I do trust. (Regardless though, I think it's great that you've done so much work to be who you want to be).

  7. #117
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    janea - I have not had a chance to really sit down and read through all of these posts in a meaningful way (I hope to do that here in an hour or so)...but just out of curiosity...why do you consider this a doorslam as opposed to merely a 'break-up'?

    I was just wondering because I, myself, have been doorslammed...and while my situation seems very different from yours...the individual has not communicated with me at all. You mentioned that you do have communication with this individual...which in all honesty...I would be so grateful for! Again, I hope to come back here soon and really read all that has been written...but just for the bits and pieces I have skimmed...I'm not exactly sure...does this really qualify as a doorslam? Please let me know your thoughts.

  8. #118
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Janea, just want to add that another element of the Doorslam/Breakup is simply the act of Moving On. It doesn't take away necessarily from what the relationship was when you were together, but it means that she has totally moved on. Although this will probably be blunt, she's ok with not having you in her life in that capacity and on that level, and mentally she's 100% adjusted and basically rewritten her life minus you. And if she's now in another relationship, she's probably more further into her 'new' life and putting all of her efforts and attention towards that.

    For myself, when I let go of someone, I've put a lot of thought into it, and probably went through a lot prior to finally letting them go. Once I do, it's a very deliberate decision and I'm ready to look ahead. I honestly don't desire to keep my thoughts in my past or revisit past relationships. So for me, I don't even know that the issue would have anything to do with whether or not I believed the person could change. It's rather that I've in effect wiped the slate clean in my mind and I'm looking forward, building my life looking to the future and to the new people in my life. I no longer have any emotional ties to those people from the past - beyond a recognition that I once had a tie. But that tie is no longer strong and for a myriad of reasons I may not desire or may not even be able to forge the tie, with the same person or in the same way, once again.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  9. #119
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Actually, a real door-slamming would not get you to have any contact with her. Though you still happen to communicate with her briefly.

    Things could be change. I'm trying to learn that a hard way myself.

    One thing I would like to add is that--I don't believe most INFJs enjoy doorslamming as part of their solution to deal with a closure. It's just wired in the core of us that we can't even control ourselves but to seek for sanctuary. Yes, it isn't ethical, but it's just one of our self-defensive mechanism that we're programmed to shut down someone out of our lives if the pain is too hard for us to bare. And it sounds like she's in that scenario based on your post.

    Though I'm sure once you're able to find a significant other, perhaps she might be willing to settle with a mere good friendship with you. Perhaps she wanted you to move on first and find a mate before re-connecting with her as a friend. Usually for INFJs, once the romance died, it dies indefinitely. So stop over-invest your emotions on her and try hard to move on first.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    I wish more doorslammers could be like you. Using it as a last resort, instead of a first resort. First-resort doorslammers can honestly just be plain selfish...
    I saw this post last night. And I REALLY NEEDED to see this post last night. So much so that I am commenting on it now just so I can experience it all over again. Thank you so much Random wherever you are.

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