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  1. #61
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    He needs to grow up a little and see the world. This isn't an SJ thing; or an I thing; it's a small minded thing.
    as an IxTJ I've have negative thoughts about going out with an SO to some party or whatever, when I'd rather chill or do something less interactive, but I've actually had a good time and end up being more into event than my girl. So while my first thought is like 'oh no'....I have the opposing viewpoint that this could be fun. And FP girls are fun. LOVE THEM!!

  2. #62
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    One moment you're unhappy about the way he limits your social activities, the next moment you're making excuses for him.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  3. #63
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    One additional thought I didn't notice mentioned in the thread - sometimes for introverts socialization is based on longer times with fewer people. It's more concentrated on just a few, but the more extended time with those few serves the same purpose as the extrovert's shorter times with more people. The way it feels to limit time with groups for the extrovert could be similar to how it feels to limit time with the few close relationships for the introvert. For an extrovert to be out with friends for hours can seem too intense for an introvert, but in the same way the more extended time with just one partner that some introverts need could seem too intense for the extrovert.

    Limiting time together or limiting time with external groups of friends can create the same feelings of being caged. In the way an extrovert can feel caged in by not spending time with groups, an introvert can feel "caged out" by someone who prefers spending time with other people.

    Edit: I think social norms favor the extrovert which is reflected in the assumptions in this thread. When two people are at extremes of that spectrum I can see a possibility of the introvert trying to control the extrovert, but I don't think it usually works. In the end extroverts tend to have a stronger impact on the dynamic and tend to direct the outcome, but that is just an individual observation and not conclusive.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #64
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Okay. But you know, you are the one making the calling for yourself but not going to make this as a religious debate.
    I'm not sure what you mean, that i'm making the choice?

    (no worries, not trying to debate either)

  5. #65
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    One additional thought I didn't notice mentioned in the thread - sometimes for introverts socialization is based on longer times with fewer people. It's more concentrated on just a few, but the more extended time with those few serves the same purpose as the extrovert's shorter times with more people. The way it feels to limit time with groups for the extrovert could be similar to how it feels to limit time with the few close relationships for the introvert. For an extrovert to be out with friends for hours can seem too intense for an introvert, but in the same way the more extended time with just one partner that some introverts need could seem too intense for the extrovert.

    Limiting time together or limiting time with external groups of friends can create the same feelings of being caged. In the way an extrovert can feel caged in by not spending time with groups, an introvert can feel "caged out" by someone who prefers spending time with other people.

    Edit: I think social norms favor the extrovert which is reflected in the assumptions in this thread. When two people are at extremes of that spectrum I can see a possibility of the introvert trying to control the extrovert, but I don't think it usually works. In the end extroverts tend to have a stronger impact on the dynamic and tend to direct the outcome, but that is just an individual observation and not conclusive.
    +1

  6. #66
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Yea, but i dont have any problems seeing this sort of trait developing into marital rape or stuff like that over time after he thinks he cant lose you and gets pissed off about you for you not raising the children properly, dont obey his rules etc etc..
    I know what you mean, but again, it's hard for me to show how mild-mannered, quiet, and unaggressive he is. He doesn't ever "demand" anything, he doesn't "put his foot down". he states what he thinks, feels, believes and then we go from there..

  7. #67
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    One moment you're unhappy about the way he limits your social activities, the next moment you're making excuses for him.

    You don't have a workable problem. The issue is between your innate personalities, which you both must accept may never change. He does NOT like to be around people, so he will stay home, while you go out with your girlfriends. He will rush you around when he does go; just as he has always done. Accept that. If he changes, great!

    I'm assuming he is secure in himself to let you go out without him? If he has shown any signs of distrust in the past, then yes, you are beyond a fool to marry him.

    (It's unreasonable to expect any more than what you've consistently seen the last 7-years of dating. I don't understand why you both waited until you get married to see if you can work through this.)
    Yes, I am unhappy with the situation, but that doesn't mean that I won't try and explain his POV as objectively as I can so I can get proper advice. I mean, keep in mind, I am in love with this guy... i don't despise him, or hate him. I want to try and make things work by understanding where he is coming from, and him understanding where I am coming from.

    I mean, usually, I get my 'way'. Either he leaves early, and I enjoy my time longer with friends, or he stays and we work on it. I can maybe count on my fingers where I've actually left without wanting to. I want to be able to get him to understand that I dont want/dont expect him to have to feel like he has to go out with me ALL the time, ya know?

    And we haven't waited until the minute he put a ring on my finger to see if we can get through it. I mean, it's a problem. No one couple is perfect. This is just a struggle for us. And we are not going to throw it away, we will work on it. It may never fully resolve, but we will continue to work on it. What's wrong with that?

  8. #68
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Now i feel bad for trying to control your thoughts lol

    Anyways, you should keep in mind that as an ENFP in love, you most likely have way overly idealistic view about him, so think about this very carefully, and try to do so with your Te, your NeFi wont give you a realistic view that will last.

    Try to see him as someone who is for example your friends(or sisters, someone who is as important to you as you are) boyfriend, and your friend is you. Think about it rationally, look at it from all angles over and over again and think if you would want your friend to marry this guy or find someone else. Dont think about you losing love, love is something you can find again, think about this person from objective point of view, thats something you are trading and the thing that you wont find again, but after knowing that you will find love again. You dumbing him wouldnt be the end of love, just a new person amd new love.

    But i dont agree that its impossible for him to change, just nearly impossible, also why wouod he change if you just go with what ever he says and simply dont put your foot down and tell him tht you like to spend time with your friends, thats who you are, if he doesent like you, he can fuck off..
    We've never been the perfect couple. But, I will tell you, we try and work hard on everything. He's told me that he feels like the marriage will take hard work, but he feels that it will be worth all of it. I am honestly trying to speak in objective truth, and without being biased, or wear my glasses with the rosy lenses:

    This man, though, he has some weird ISTJ perspectives, is the most kind, timid, humble, honest, pure man I have ever met. He isn't violent, he doesn't speak rudely of people. He is very, very sweet. No one would or could picture a better man for me. Not my family, not my friends. He is a really, really, really good guy. he just needs to understand how the world works since he was brought up sheltered. He will be a great husband and take all of the commitment seriously.

    I do not bend to his will. He says he would like me to do these things, and I don't unless I fully agree with it. (Keep in mind, I use Fi!!). He gets frustrated when I dont see his POV, just as I do, but we will sit and talk for HOURS about any problems until we fully get it. (I've been working a lot this week, so we havent gotten to dig deep into this event yet). I think people think I drop everything to do what he wants, but I do not. I don't sacrifice things for his happiness; I can be kinda stubborn and selfish, and I am aware. So I want to work on the things where I could give up, but this one, I cannot see myself doing.

    If only you guys could see how much more stuck in his ways he used to be before dating me. He's adapted, and his family thinks he's changed from who he used to be. He is becoming more rounded but definitely needs more time.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Wow. Thank you for this post. I mean that.


    We are doing premartial counseling now through our church. our pastor gave us a list of "martial expectations" questions to go through with each other and then come to him with some issues we find. This is obviously one that we will talk about in our next meeting. It's great that our pastor knows me and the ISTJ so well, he sees that we are so different but he supports us and thinks that we compliment each other well.
    Thank God. Great to see that you're pursuing this avenue. They'll be better qualified to help than a bunch of people on a forum who lack so much information!

    I understand why you asked this question to us, and I hope we provide some insight.. but, yeah, the counselor will know better than we do. It's so easy for any one of us to just call it as we see it with such limited information, thinking that 'the obvious answer' is e.g. to just break it off. You know the nuances better than we do.

    I tend to value asking why as a way to connect to what truly matters. Maybe he can ask himself why he thinks it's important that husband and wife spend virtually all of their time together, why he thinks that sacrifices such as his are necessary, and so on. Which is a better principle--wanting happiness for one another, or needing to spend every waking moment together? His being principled is a great thing, but he can potentially refine his principles for the good of both of you with a bit of discussion and introspection.

    If only you guys could see how much more stuck in his ways he used to be before dating me. He's adapted, and his family thinks he's changed from who he used to be. He is becoming more rounded but definitely needs more time.
    It looks like he's shown a sort of 'progress,' and that's a good thing. People are more adaptable than we give them credit for. I'm sure that he values your relationship over these small principles of his and can find a way to reconcile the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    I do not bend to his will. He says he would like me to do these things, and I don't unless I fully agree with it. (Keep in mind, I use Fi!!). He gets frustrated when I dont see his POV, just as I do, but we will sit and talk for HOURS about any problems until we fully get it.
    This resonates with me. I have a hard time doing things that I don't want to do, but then again I have ways of making things I don't want to do into things that I do--it just takes looking at what needs to be done from a different perspective or mindset.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    He's adapted, and his family thinks he's changed from who he used to be. He is becoming more rounded but definitely needs more time.
    No, he doesn't. You said you weren't trying to change him, but your posts say you are.

    he just needs to understand how the world works since he was brought up sheltered. He will be a great husband and take all of the commitment seriously.
    No, *he* doesn't need to understand how the world works. *You* need him to understand how the world works.

    And he needs you to accept him the way he is or let him go.

    Just trying to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    I know what you mean, but again, it's hard for me to show how mild-mannered, quiet, and unaggressive he is. He doesn't ever "demand" anything, he doesn't "put his foot down". he states what he thinks, feels, believes and then we go from there..
    You are all over the map!...

    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    I feel guilty... he met me and our friends at a bar for 2 hours (wanted to leave after one), I had already been there an hour, so I ended up staying for 3 hours all together. He got mad that I didn't want to leave when he wanted too and that he thinks I don't sacrifice enough for him. He thinks it's stupid that people enjoy talking at bars for hours. We both went to our separate houses after this argument at around 1 in the morning. I'm still energized, so I went out to more bars and met some more friends until 3 in the morning. Keep in mind, I don't really drink at all. Maybe 1 or 2 drinks if I go out. I know when I tell him that I didn't get enough time with people and went back out, he is going to think i'm crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    it's more of like the "child" relationship, which I talked to him about times before. That sometimes i feel like he 'fathers' me. He is aware and works on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Thankfully, our pastor is so very understanding, and supports me in my values and ideas. He is in no way going to hold us to gender-stereotypes and things like that. I believe he is an INFP (and i believe his wife to be an ESTJ, though, not confirmed). He sees that my ISTJ can be uptight and hard to budge and he works on him to help understand others feelings. It;s great to have him, he is such an understanding pastor.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    I don't sacrifice things for his happiness;
    You indicated you did in a previous post or did I misuderstand?...

    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    I love playing sports but HATE watching it on TV. So he asks me all the time to sit and watch a game with him, even if I am uninterested or don't want to. If I were to watch the game, he would LOVE it, since I am doing something I dont want to do, just to be with him.

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