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  1. #31
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Bad chemistry, re-examine what your relationship is built on and put the wedding on hold.
    ^^ That.

    His belief that couples have to do everything together means that he really should be involved with another ISJ, they're probably the most compatible if that is what he expects the relationship to look like. ENFP seems willing to have some together time, then have some separate time in order for both sets of needs to be honored; meanwhile, ISTJ seems to be demanding that everything conform to his needs.

    Realistically, two types that are so different (ENFP and ISTJ) need to basically be willing to let the other have more alone time, if it's going to work, since their personal needs are in such contrast unless they are both well-rounded. But he sounds like a pretty stringent, dyed in the wool ISTJ, especially if he plans to crack down even more harshly once you get married.

    I really would put things on hold, until you guys work out what flex is going to exist in the relationship or until you decide your needs are incompatible and getting married would be the equivalent of blowing up on the pad.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    The issue is that he feels that as a couple, we need to spend these outtings together. If I want to stay, and he wants to leave, he believes I should leave, since we already spent time at the gathering. Why stay? We've already been here for X amount of time. He says that during gatherings, he doesn't want me to go alone, he wants to go. But when he goes, he doesn't have fun, and then I can't have fun. I ask him to just pass on going on the event and I'll go with friends, and he doesn't want to do that because that's "not what couples do". Once we are married, he already voiced that he feels he will be more strict with this value. That it's only right if married people do everything together.

    But with this value, no one is really having fun, ya know? I can't enjoy myself because I know he doesn't want to be there. I don't want to leave early because I am enjoying myself and then he doesn't want to stay. I understand there needs to be compromise -- but I don't feel loved by self-sacrifice. Why should he feel "happy" that I sacrificed my happiness to leave a party early. Why should I feel "loved" that he stayed out for 3 hours when he didn't enjoy any bit of it.
    He wants to do everything together but does not like to do what you like to do. Interesting combination, to say the least.

    Either he needs to compromise on his value, or you need to try not to take responsibility or guilt for him not having fun. The former takes work on his part, and the latter is a lot to ask from you and seems like it would eventually strain the relationship. The reality is that different people do have different interests and that it is okay--even healthy--for couples to not spend every waking moment together.

    I mean, at least mulling this over with a third party like a premarital counselor seems like a good idea. If the option for counseling is there, I'd recommend it for any prospective couple. (We start ours tomorrow.)

  3. #33
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    This is incredibly concerning. Going by this and your previous posts I can only say - do not marry him. Unless you will enjoy the divorce proceedings. He doesn't want you to go alone because he is a control freak and once you are married to him, he'll feel he has every right to control you and it doesn't matter what he says in regard to that now. The dating stage only gives him so much control. Not that you're going to listen to any of this advice so, do whatever you like, it's not going to make any difference to the end result.

    I do not believe he is a control freak. We are talking about expectations of our marriage. I mean, couldn't I be viewed as the same? I am controlling because I do not want to leave my friends early.

  4. #34
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    He wants to do everything together but does not like to do what you like to do. Interesting combination, to say the least.

    Either he needs to compromise on his value, or you need to try not to take responsibility or guilt for him not having fun. The former takes work on his part, and the latter is a lot to ask from you and seems like it would eventually strain the relationship. The reality is that different people do have different interests and that it is okay--even healthy--for couples to not spend every waking moment together.

    I mean, at least mulling this over with a third party like a premarital counselor seems like a good idea. If the option for counseling is there, I'd recommend it for any prospective couple. (We start ours tomorrow.)
    Wow. Thank you for this post. I mean that.

    (The bolded part is my simple complaint. I don't understand his POV about that...)

    We are doing premartial counseling now through our church. our pastor gave us a list of "martial expectations" questions to go through with each other and then come to him with some issues we find. This is obviously one that we will talk about in our next meeting. It's great that our pastor knows me and the ISTJ so well, he sees that we are so different but he supports us and thinks that we compliment each other well.

    I am often worried that I make the ISTJ look so bad with the threads that I create. But I often come here to seek understanding, and I don't nearly praise the ISTJ I am with enough! we just are different, and sometimes it causes problems, but other times, we both grow so much and we love that.

  5. #35
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    I do not believe he is a control freak. We are talking about expectations of our marriage. I mean, couldn't I be viewed as the same? I am controlling because I do not want to leave my friends early.
    But you see, you are trying to control yourself, not him, hes doing the opposite.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  6. #36
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Deep down, but he'ld never admit that, he's envious of you being so good with people and he is not. he could become better, if you maybe try to help him, but you'ld prolly need to break a lot of ice first, cause its unsure if he wants so much social interaction at all. some people just dont need so much of that and tho i am an extrovert, i hate social gatherings aswell.

    his greatest problem tho or fear and thats too why you dont come to terms, is that he is afraid too loose you, if he cant be the man for you, you need. and thats his impression that he cant because he thinks he's a party pooper. if you dont adress that but rather blame him, this wont help the situation.

    I am personally surprised by the sheer amount of childish and unwise answers almost egoistical replies in this thread. but it explains why so many relationships just fail.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I am personally surprised by the sheer amount of childish and unwise answers almost egoistical replies in this thread. but it explains why so many relationships just fail.
    The wise person foresees that the dating issues before marriage will not go away after marriage; they'll get worse. She should accept him the way he is or break up with him.

  8. #38
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    The wise person foresees that the dating issues before marriage will not go away after marriage; they'll get worse. She should accept him the way he is or break up with him.
    Unless I am fooling myself, I do accept him the way he is. We did break up a few years ago, and I dated around and realized that he is the best for me, even though we have our differences. I decided to embrace them and grow instead of getting upset every time we are different.

    I am asking these questions not to change him, but to understand where he is coming from, to check and balance my rationality, and to sort my thoughts. I am not going to break up with him, or push the wedding. I didn't ask those questions -- we both work and WANT to work on our relationship.

  9. #39
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Unless I am fooling myself, I do accept him the way he is. We did break up a few years ago, and I dated around and realized that he is the best for me, even though we have our differences. I decided to embrace them and grow instead of getting upset every time we are different.

    I am asking these questions not to change him, but to understand where he is coming from, to check and balance my rationality, and to sort my thoughts. I am not going to break up with him, or push the wedding. I didn't ask those questions -- we both work and WANT to work on our relationship.
    If you both want to work on your relationship, doesent that imply that he is willing to change too? From what you say, it seems as if you are the only one wanting to change to his needs and he just gets upset when you dont bend to his will..

    But if you want to understand him, i dont really know anything else to say other than dom Si and aux Te. Because of this, he sees his subjective view(about what is, should be) as the only truth that counts and because of Te, he wants to control his external world and fit it to his Si. Him changing with these things will be EXTREMELY hard, because those things are pretty much the definition of his personality, those things his ego sees as most himself(ofc he is something else too), its the way he has always dealt with the world. Imo the very definition of immature is the inability to go against your dom and aux functions and it seems to be a hard job for him.. You sure that he is mature enough to even get married yet? And do remember that his immaturity is your maturity and your maturity is his immaturity(opposite function order).
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  10. #40
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    But you see, you are trying to control yourself, not him, hes doing the opposite.
    I never thought of it that way...youre right

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