User Tag List

Results 1 to 10 of 10

  1. #1
    Member cheerchick23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    Ne
    Posts
    59

    Default ENFP with an INTJ mom; let the conflict begin.

    I know these two types have been said to be quite compatible (at least in the romantic sense), but for my mother and me, it spells disaster.

    Long story short.... all I've ever wanted from her is to feel loved, understood, and worth fighting for. However, she is so dominated by her T and J that she approaches everything with cold analysis and "fix it"-driven intensity. Instead of listening and loving on me, she would try instantly just to fix things, and would get frustrated and annoyed when I complained that that wasn't what I wanted. I just wanted to be understood and empathized with. (ohhh, the emotional joys of being an ENFP...) After a short while of me getting more and more upset, she would ALWAYS give up and say the whole "well I tried"/"I can't help you anymore, I did all I knew how to" speech. Then she'd leave. That stung worse than any pain I'd ever felt. As a little girl, seeing my mother walk away from me, claiming she had nothing left to say and nothing more to do with me was like a dagger to the heart. I was young and didn't understand that her T function made it hard for her to understand my emotional needs. Instead, I just built up pain and resentment against her, feeling like she was unwilling to try to understand me. I began to think that I just wasn't worth fighting for in her eyes.

    Whenever I confront her about these problems and tell her how it made me feel, the only thing she does is justify her actions and tell me all the things that I'VE done wrong to hurt her. When I explain how her actions upset me, she just comes back with a list of my actions that upset her. This, above all, frustrates me. I was a child. Children are, by nature, ridiculous. Children say and do things that are hurtful, but that shouldn't be taken seriously... kids don't know what they're saying! They react out of emotion. It's the parent's job to take the high road. My mom doesn't... she expects me only and always to concede to her way of thinking and action, and never tries to do so for me.

    Even though the bulk of this happened when I was a child, we still have similar conflicts and nothing has changed. I'm at a loss with what to do, because she is absolutely unable/unwilling to see things from my perspective.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Porcelain Hearts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Wow, I cannot relate any more closely with you. I share the same story with my ISTJ mother.

    As I've aged, I always hoped my relationship with her to get stronger. However when I get down to the grit of it, what we both expect from one another is respect and there's just none at both ends. We also expect respect in different ways. She wants things done the way tradition has it, as if there's an innate quality I have to provide for her and the family's needs. I want things to be communicated so I can understand convention on an emotional level and find things I can relate to before I pursue them.

    I think it definitely has more to do with growing up, as it suggests we both run out of patience with each other and we both think there's an "easy solution to this problem". Simply put, it's just not easy dealing with a type that sees respect and love in an entirely different language. We don't speak the same language so one of us just has to suck it up until you're at a good position to say something. If that doesn't work, distance will give her room to reflect and appreciate the void. It's my self curative motivation to move out in hopes to better our relationship...

  3. #3
    Senior Member Elisius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    2w1 so/sx
    Posts
    157

    Default

    Same. Totally same.
    I hate it. It's so hard to get through to her. It hurts to talk to her sometimes just on how little she seems to care.
    She can be insanely illogical and irrational and doesn't seem to understand anything about the people around her or how she affects them.
    She's practically inhuman!
    A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions. - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

  4. #4
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    TJs show their love and affection by their actions-thus by trying to do things for you or give you guidance (even if it feels like bossing you around), it is their way of showing love. ( I knwo this doesnt helpt the hurt-just a bit of explanation at to the "why")

  5. #5
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    9,701

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cheerchick23 View Post
    I know these two types have been said to be quite compatible (at least in the romantic sense), but for my mother and me, it spells disaster.

    Long story short.... all I've ever wanted from her is to feel loved, understood, and worth fighting for. However, she is so dominated by her T and J that she approaches everything with cold analysis and "fix it"-driven intensity. Instead of listening and loving on me, she would try instantly just to fix things, and would get frustrated and annoyed when I complained that that wasn't what I wanted. I just wanted to be understood and empathized with. (ohhh, the emotional joys of being an ENFP...) After a short while of me getting more and more upset, she would ALWAYS give up and say the whole "well I tried"/"I can't help you anymore, I did all I knew how to" speech. Then she'd leave. That stung worse than any pain I'd ever felt. As a little girl, seeing my mother walk away from me, claiming she had nothing left to say and nothing more to do with me was like a dagger to the heart. I was young and didn't understand that her T function made it hard for her to understand my emotional needs. Instead, I just built up pain and resentment against her, feeling like she was unwilling to try to understand me. I began to think that I just wasn't worth fighting for in her eyes.

    Whenever I confront her about these problems and tell her how it made me feel, the only thing she does is justify her actions and tell me all the things that I'VE done wrong to hurt her. When I explain how her actions upset me, she just comes back with a list of my actions that upset her. This, above all, frustrates me. I was a child. Children are, by nature, ridiculous. Children say and do things that are hurtful, but that shouldn't be taken seriously... kids don't know what they're saying! They react out of emotion. It's the parent's job to take the high road. My mom doesn't... she expects me only and always to concede to her way of thinking and action, and never tries to do so for me.

    Even though the bulk of this happened when I was a child, we still have similar conflicts and nothing has changed. I'm at a loss with what to do, because she is absolutely unable/unwilling to see things from my perspective.
    I'm going to address the bolded sentence. In no way am I condoning your mother just walking away and saying - I tried/I can't help you anymore. You don't do that with children no matter what. However, the fix it mindset IS a way of showing that they care. That's what we want to do and when someone we care about is having an issue or hurting, it feels like we absolutely have to right. now. We want to make it better for you. Listening to someone we care about venting isn't very productive and it took me a LONG time to understand that, to them, it is productive. I had to start listening, start sympathizing and start understanding that different people have different ways of approaching things and my way was not always best. I can see why you would think you weren't worth fighting for in her eyes but I can tell you, that's totally not the truth. She had no other method to show her love than to try and fix and try to guide you to the best path but not every INTJ reaches the point where they can say - this is someone I love. I will do what is best for them in a language they understand.

    Yes parents should generally take the high road but I wouldn't expect that to be unlimited. I have an ISTJ mother, I can tell you that the ridiculous clinging to tradition and the way it's always been done caused more problems that I can even count for me growing up but I wasn't an ENFP. I kind of shudder to think how it would have been if I was. The justifying her actions is pretty normal INTJ behavior but that doesn't make it right. I know because I have done it with my ENFJ and makes him insane. So I do my best to listen to everything without judgement and without interjecting anything of my own. Perhaps suggesting this to your mother is one thing you could say.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  6. #6
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    N/A
    Posts
    1,200

    Default

    Just tell her that "hugs and kisses" are the solution. I've had the same problems with my mother, I told her how to solve the problems lol, until I remembered that she was an Fi type.

  7. #7
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    ^

    i think that trying to explain to her how to help you is worthwhile... i've had to do this with my mom and she's an ESFJ, a Feeler too. but she, like TJs, tends to show love more in action than in abiding and empathizing, which is what i personally need. what i had to tell her is that i can do what i need to do to fix problems for myself, but i can't give myself emotional support. and she still tends to do action, but i can give her a gentle reminder and she will shift to helping me the way i need it. i have to do the same with her, too... my natural inclination is to sit with her and provide comfort that way, but what really helps her is when i provide help in the form of action.

    i think all parents naturally want to help their children but sometimes we have a sort of learned helplessness because we try our hardest and it doesn't work again and again. but if you tell her how she needs to help, then maybe there's room for growth. and maybe you should ask her how you can help her, reciprocally, too.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Lily flower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    2
    Posts
    931

    Default

    I have a father who has no understanding of empathy, and who probably has Asperger's. When I was in my 20's I used to feel bad that I didn't have a better relationship with him, but now in my 40's I have come to realize that he is just incapable of having a real relationship with me or really anyone. I suggest that you seek out people who do love you and care for you, and make them your family. You can continue to have a superficial relationship with your mom, and find things that perhaps the two of you have in common, but look to others for the emotional support. It's sad that you can't get it from your mom, but if she hasn't given it to you by now, she probably is just not able.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,988

    Default

    "well I tried"/"I can't help you anymore, I did all I knew how to". That's probably true, without proper psychological training. Other types would know what to do automatically. What you don't seem to need is more unhelpful advice, but rather someone's empathetic support. In this way your inner "wise self" will come forward into consciousness with the solutions to your problems in hand.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #10
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    950

    Default

    My mom was an INTJ. And, being her ENFP daughter led to loads of antics which took me a couple years of therapy in my 30s to work through. Yeah. INTJ boyfriend is awesome for ENFPs. But for a mother.... not so much.

    I'll reflect on the OP and post more soon.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFP] ENFP: a sexy intj walks into the room, everything you ever wanted in a mate...
    By jcloudz in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 11-06-2016, 02:49 PM
  2. [INTJ] Being friends (or more) with an INTJ
    By logistician in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 10-06-2015, 09:43 PM
  3. ENFP with an introverted side as a child
    By Emectar in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05-22-2010, 01:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO